illegal to have nav lights???

[1938BF50]

Re: illegal to have nav lights???

Print off a copy of the applicable TCDS...which shows all these options.

[barnstmr]

Re: illegal to have nav lights???

DJ,
don't get upset with your guy. He's being thorough and that is a good thing. Like most in the FAA system, folks are just unfamiliar with these old airplanes. Keep the attitude of helping him learn as you learn too. Now that you've found him, show him that you are cooperative and willing to do the right thing. This will benefit you in the long run. And perhaps other Tcraft owners may benefit from his learned expertise down the road as well.

[captnmike71]

Re: illegal to have nav lights???

so my IA tells me today that it is illegal for me to have nav lights on my wings and beacon on my tail if there is no battery to power them. My Tcraft used to have a wind generator and battery many years ago. Those were removed but the lights and wiring stayed.

He wants to paint the lenses the same color as the wings or remove them and cover the mounting holes.

Is this true???! is is really illegal to have lights installed and no power system to illuminate them?

I wonder if your IA can quote the reg to you? You can have the lites butthe plane should have a placard stating not authorized for night flight

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: illegal to have nav lights???

Gary,
Keep ranting, it keeps us honest. Believe me, my IA is one in a million and I wouldn’t trade him for an extra airplane. He is worth every dime he has ever charged me and more. When the IA in question was being described, it sounded like he was being overly draconian in his interpretation of the regs and laying a series unnecessary requirements on the owner with no verifiable justification. The “BOZO” term was intended to describe an IA who wouldn’t back off from that kind of position (in which case he would DESERVE the title). If anyone felt I was calling them a “BOZO” I apologize. I haven’t met many (a few, but not many) IAs like that. The guy I use is thoughtful, competent and thorough. His first priority is safety (as it should be) and I am very comfortable putting my life in his hands.
That said, there have been a series of strange things he and I have found on my plane. Every year I have a list of things to change to bring the plane closer to original (many of which are real surprises to both of us). One of them is the lights. My plane came from the factory with lights AND a panel switch, BUT, there have never been wires soldered or attached to the switch (it has solder lugs and they have never been scratched by a spade plug, connector or tinned with solder, it is like brand new). The wing and tail wires were CLOTH INSULATED and rolled up in the wing roots. They had never been stripped (that I could tell) or tinned either. The switch was labeled on the panel above the knob as “Lights” but could barely be read. My IA never blinked and eye. IT has never been placarded (or used) since the plane was built. Based on the current rules should I:
1) remove the switch
2) Put a Placard on the panel that isn’t original
3) Put in a battery and hook the system up (what I think I will do)
4) Tear out the wires, switch and lights
5) Pretend this conversation never happened and keep flying

I guess the key is, work with your IA and BOTH of you will learn. A good IA will look to you to provide him with good data to work with when you know more than he does. You will look to him to keep you safe and make you understand what he is doing and why. If you get one who makes up rules and interpretations, demands you do it his way when a group like this one thinks he is wrong, won’t listen to alternative plans of attack (listen, he doesn’t have to agree and his word is final if you want his signature, but he should at least LISTEN), then you might have a “BOZO” and you should politely pay him for his time and never darken his door again.
They are far and few between, but they ARE out there. Let em work on spam cans and come to south east Virginia (or another location with a good IA). If you come here I’ll put you in touch with an IA who will keep you safe.
Hank

[Forrest Barber]

Re: illegal to have nav lights???

e-mail me your ser# & N number and use the factory records, they are here at the Foundation. [email protected]

[Robert Lees]

Re: illegal to have nav lights???

now another mission. I am supposed to show him proof that my plane came from the factory with a wood floor. I have carpet in it now and the carpet is not approved. I told him to leave the carpet out and just leave it be wood. said he'd need to see proof that they came that way from factory.

Perhaps you might politely ask why he thinks that would not be the way they came out of the factory? He is talking like he wants to see the detailed design drawings, which of course are not generally available to your average IA.

Has he asked you to prove that your Taylorcraft came out of the factory with steel in the fuselage? Or wood spars? Don't forget, the ribs are supposed to be Titanium (solid, with gold leaf) but don't let him see your aluminium ones.

[cpirrmann]

Re: illegal to have nav lights???

DJ,
don't get upset with your guy. He's being thorough and that is a good thing. Like most in the FAA system, folks are just unfamiliar with these old airplanes. Keep the attitude of helping him learn as you learn too. Now that you've found him, show him that you are cooperative and willing to do the right thing. This will benefit you in the long run. And perhaps other Tcraft owners may benefit from his learned expertise down the road as well.

That's good diplomatic aproach, but another tragic comedy of our system, when we, the owners, who cannot work on our planes, have to educate the inspector who is trained and certified by the FAA to sign it off as airworthy. Barnum and Baily would be proud. "Step right up ladies and gentlemen and see the greates show on Earth! You won't believe your eyes and ears in this most incredible display of stupefaction!" Right next to the dog faced boy. That's probably the tent where the attorneys and bureaucrats would do their act that make the IA's, etc. afraid to sign anything.

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: illegal to have nav lights???

It is starting to sound like your IA is NOT very familiar with tube and rag planes (or at least Taylorcrafts), which is a shame if he is your best option within a reasonable distance. The answer is to cultivate a friendship and both of you learn together. This forum is a GREAT source to learn for both of you.
When I first met my IA he was very familiar with tube and rag with a lot of experience with Cubs and Champs. Unfortunately he knew almost NOTHING about Taylorcrafts. His first priority was safety, and so was mine, so the idea of signing my plane off with a wood instrument panel that was SAFE but not original wasn't a problem. When I found out what a 41 panel was SUPPOSED to look like, I made one and he liked it. We both learned and the plane is steadily moving back to original. Taylorcraft used both wood AND metal floors. I have seen both, and both are safe. THAT is the criteria both of you should be worried about. Not many people could tell you which was in your plane when it was built. My plane had lights when it was built, but the wires were never even attached to the switch. Doesn't matter much, as long as I'm not going to fly at night. It isn't an "inop" (broken) system, it was never hooked up. He sees NO reason for a placard. I am a little uncomfortable with an unconnected switch, so I am going to take it out until I can replace the old wire in the wing and put the battery box in and hook it all up for a working light system. I can't IMAGINE him asking me to remove or paint the lights. That isn't a safety issue. Flying at dusk and trying to turn on the lights when they aren't hooked up could be. We will talk about that one and come to agreement before I pull the switch out.
It is in his professional interest to know as much as possible about your plane so his signature on your papers isn't at risk. It's in YOUR interest to know because it's your soft pink backside in the plane. It's in BOTH your interests because you should be friends and close enough to know that neither would do something to put the other at risk. Work together and both of you can learn. If he isn't interested in learning, pay him, walk away and look elsewhere.
Hank

[taylorcraftbc65]

Re: illegal to have nav lights???

O.K. guys, all this brings a related question. I have a wind powered generator and motorcycle battery on my 1940 BC65 to power my handheld nav/com, and a G.P.S. reciever.
Because I now have an "electrical system" of sorts, will I be required to install lights? And seeing as I have this system, will I now have to install transponder/ encoder, etc., to work controlled airspace? Right now, everyone figures that I'm non electrical, so I don't need to buy the stuff.
Please let me know about this, I don't need to have FAA employee rip me apart on the ramp for "lying", and telling the tower that I was a non electric ship. Brie

[3Dreaming]

Re: illegal to have nav lights???

O.K. guys, all this brings a related question. I have a wind powered generator and motorcycle battery on my 1940 BC65 to power my handheld nav/com, and a G.P.S. reciever.
Because I now have an "electrical system" of sorts, will I be required to install lights? And seeing as I have this system, will I now have to install transponder/ encoder, etc., to work controlled airspace? Right now, everyone figures that I'm non electrical, so I don't need to buy the stuff.
Please let me know about this, I don't need to have FAA employee rip me apart on the ramp for "lying", and telling the tower that I was a non electric ship. Brie

The answer is NO you don't have to install any of that stuff your asking about. You do need to make sure you have a proper paper work for what you do have installed. Tom

[Ragwing nut]

Re: illegal to have nav lights???

Sounds like he has never touched a Taylorcraft (or yours in particular)and he is making sure it conforms to the TCDS sheet before he puts his name in the books. That is not a bad thing, he just needs to learn like everyone else had too at one point in time. No need to rip him a new one because he is not already an expert. Don't know the guy but I understand his direction.

Mike

[DanBrown]

Re: illegal to have nav lights???

...
Because I now have an "electrical system" of sorts, will I be required to install lights? And seeing as I have this system, will I now have to install transponder/ encoder, etc., to work controlled airspace? Right now, everyone figures that I'm non electrical, so I don't need to buy the stuff.
Please let me know about this, I don't need to have FAA employee rip me apart on the ramp for "lying", and telling the tower that I was a non electric ship. Brie

I went to the expense and trouble to put a transponder, encoder and battery in a self contained box to be able to operate in the ADIZ and class B airspace. Even when operating out of it, and since I have no electrical system I don't require it, I always have it on. It is one more safety feature. High performance ships under radar guidance will probably get me as traffic before there is any likelihood of my being seen.
But again, I had to fly up to Lancaster, PA to get the signoff for the transponder check -- the local Avionics shops wouldn't do it.

[taylorcraftbc65]

Re: illegal to have nav lights???

Dan,
That is FAR too much trouble for me to mess with. I just want to be able to fly into ELP and the like if I want to. The GPS is a yoke mount, and very useful for flying cross country over some of the VERY remote desert that we have out here.
That, coupled with the VOR that I have on my JRC handheld enables me to go anywhere I want to. Brie

[N74DV]

Re: illegal to have nav lights???

you only need a transponder in C and B airspace if your aircraft was originally certificated with an ENGINE driven electrical system.

As I understand it, a wind driven generator or an aircraft outfitted with an engine driven system after original certification is not required to have a transponder to operate in C or B

[taylorcraftbc65]

Re: illegal to have nav lights???

Thanks, DJ, I used to live out by the Nuke plant in Tonopah, and plan on flying out to Glendale next spring. A old neighbor of mine, a Mr. Shindler, owns the resturant there, and I promised him the last time I was there that I would fly in once I was settled here. I've been here since November of 2003, so I guess I ought to go do it. Brie