Tail Weight 46 BC12D

[swift1b]

What should the weight be at the tail of a BC12D by placing a scale under the tail wheel? What is the range? Has anyone weighed theirs?

Also, does any one have a W&B sheet that you can punch in the numbers a create a W&B with different pilot/pass/fule weights?

[Robert Lees]

Which year BC12D...45, 46 ?

I have a template that I use for a W&B calculation.

It's most important that you use the actual weights,and actual distances from the datum, for each aircraft. You can't cheat this test.

[Scott]

There are many variables including which tail wheel is installed as this changes the arm by several inches. Then there's a myriad of potential engine and equipment combinations which will all have an impact. Maybe best to compare C of G location rather than a single variable like tail weight.

[Robert Lees]

Scott, you and I sing from the same hymn sheet in this regard ; but my intended point to the OP is that the tail weight is what is actually measured....I hope that is what my post conveyed. My template is just a spreadsheet upon which all datums, weights, distances are recorded for each and every aircraft.

[Hank Jarrett]

Robert,
The tail weight should be on the Weight and Balance sheet with the paperwork for your plane. This weight will have been measured with the plane leveled in pitch and roll to find the actual CG and is required to be with the plane for her to be airworthy.
That said I have to ask, is the plane flying? Do you trust whatever W&B you have. You need a current W&B not only to be legal but to be safe. I have done many weighing’s and CG calculations on my T and several others planes. It is NOT that hard, but is a bit complex (I started to write out the whole process and that made me remember just how complex it can be!) When I first bought one of my Taylorcrafts I was really happy with how light and responsive the controls were. She SHOULD have been. The CG was at the aft limit with full fuel in the nose tank.
My first clue something might be “off” was when I noticed the W&B sheet had EXACTLY the same numbers as the certification documents from the factory. RIGHT! Not likely! If you are flying with an aft CG you are at risk of losing control. An accidental spin could be impossible to recover from.
I live in SE Virginia about 4 hours from you. It is a shame we aren’t closer. The first time I did one it took a couple of days, the last one a couple of hours (if I am all set up for it).

Hank

[3Dreaming]

Robert,
The tail weight should be on the Weight and Balance sheet with the paperwork for your plane. This weight will have been measured with the plane leveled in pitch and roll to find the actual CG and is required to be with the plane for her to be airworthy.


Hank

I know the ARROW acronym and what we have all been taught, but for a part 91 operations I would like you to quote the regulation that says the W&B must be with the airplane.

[astjp2]

Stolen from: https://pilotworkshop.com/tips/airplane_weight_balance/

FAR 91.9 prohibits operation of the aircraft without complying with the operating limitations.

However, FAR 91.103 (preflight action) says that you must have reliable information regarding performance.

Remember that aircraft performance can only be determined after gross weight is computed.

Here is a worksheet i did, just check your numbers vs the worksheet: https://vb.taylorcraft.org/forum/tay...ance-worksheet

[Hank Jarrett]

It is kind of a left handed requirement.

§ 91.9 Civil aircraft flight manual, marking, and placard requirements.

(a) Except as provided in paragraph (d) of this section, no person may operate a civil aircraft without complying with the operating limitations specified in the approved Airplane or Rotorcraft Flight Manual, markings, and placards, or as otherwise prescribed by the certificating authority of the country of registry.
You can’t know what the CG is without a good W&B. Flight control limitations are controlled by CG position, which I was always taught had to be calculated prior to flight (that does NOT mean you do the calculation every flight, but you have to know the envelope and do the calculation if there is doubt if you are in the envelope.) My instructors all said you had to have a W&B sheet ON BOARD for every flight. If it isn't an FAR, it is certainly a good idea to be carrying it in the paperwork.

[astjp2]

Now we need to define current: that is the most recent one, whether it was done in 2019 or 1947...

[3Dreaming]

Yep regulations say you need to figure W&B, but it doesn't say it has to be in the aircraft. I think you will find a requirement for the up to date W&B in the aircraft records.

[Guest]

Mine weighed 70 pounds at the tail and I think that is a bit heavy.

Dave R

[Hank Jarrett]

Remember the government rule that if ANYONE ever actually understands the FARs the FAA is required to change the wording to make it confusing again. ;-)

Just to answer your earlier question my tail weight with the fuselage level measured at the tail wheel (197" aft of the leading edge on my plane) is 61#. Also remember the numbers for my 41 have NOTHING to do with any other plane! All it can show you is that if you were getting say, 30# or 150# you "might" be out of the ball park.

Hank

Or maybe I am!

[swift1b]

Hank...
So the tail is weighed with the tail lifted up to level flight? As we know, the weight decreases the higher the tail. The best thing I guess is to put scales under main gear and tail and get the actual empty weight.

[Hank Jarrett]

ABSOLUTELY! As you raise the tail the tail wheel swings through an arc around the main gear and in the level attitude the moment arm (measured on the floor) is longer and the weight is lower. I have talked to several people who just couldn't understand why you can't do a W&B in a three point attitude. Well, you "can", but it doesn't take into account how high above the ground the CG is so it gives you a number that doesn't relate to the proper position as determined by the designer. Simple wording, it gives you the wrong CG. Close, but WRONG! ALL W&B measurements are supposed to be done with the plane LEVEL!

Hank

Just for "Grins and Giggles" I did a W&B once in the three point so I could calculate the height of the CG. It was kind of fun, but totally useless for flying and if you tried to use the numbers you would be flying around in a tail heavy plane compared to what the numbers told you. I also MEASURED the arms for the pilot and passenger, the fuel tanks and the baggage sling, just to be sure the arms were correct. They were "close enough" to not significantly impact CG. What has surprised me is how much variation in tail moment arm there is between Taylorcrafts! MEASURE YOUR OWN PLANE!!!!!

[Guest]

Robert,

Check out the attached advisory circular, chapter ten starting on page 51 will help you. The file is a portion of AC43.13-1b.

Dave