Oshkosh 2017

[Thrashnic]

Re: Oshkosh 2017

If there are any affordable solutions discussed in the forum on Tuesday for ADSB, Please post for those of us not able to attend. My bird still does not have electricity so at this point I will not be able to use a certified solution.

[3Dreaming]

Re: Oshkosh 2017

No ADSB discussion at the forum.

[Mark Bowden]

Re: Oshkosh 2017

The FAA issued a clarification letter in January confirming that aircraft certificated without electrical systems are not required to equip. Of course you will be excluded from certain airspace. This fundamentally applies to all aircraft, it is an airspace requirement and follows the transponder rules. Letter attached in this post.

You can get limited traffic and the other ADSB info with: Stratus2s/Foreflight, Foreflight/iPad/Stratus new $200 receiver. Stratux, Open Flight Solutions. But your traffic visibility is basically limited to when you are within the 15 nm radius from an equipped aircraft. Caution, then you see stuff centered from their aircraft NOT yours. No one see you on ADSB, if you’re not equipped out.

uAvionix who designed and built Status’ new gadget is the gear to watch, It can be used in Europe and are introducing stuff here now for certified aircraft. I predict they are what Garmin was to Honeywell at their start. https://www.uavionix.com/

Arguably Stratux and Open Flight is the cheapest partial solution to data access. I feel the FAA err'd when it didn't allow our antiques to use the gear allowed for LSA/Experimental's, actually even aircraft with TC's.

If you do feel you have to fully equip it will be more complex than “normal” as you are into 337’ing gear in (WASS GPS, transponder, encoder, antennas etc.…).

I might suggest waiting and watching uAvionix as the all in one boxes come to for, and how the market responds as it will be an easier, more affordable solution. Of course it depends on your airspace needs.

[M Towsley]

Re: Oshkosh 2017

Mark,

FYI, I have researched this extensively regarding airspace as I am based in Class C and non-electric. I currently have a transponder waiver and the FAA folks I have spoken with indicate it will be similar with a waiver being issued for no ADS-B.

[astjp2]

Re: Oshkosh 2017

The FAA issued a clarification letter in January confirming that aircraft certificated without electrical systems are not required to equip. Of course you will be excluded from certain airspace. This fundamentally applies to all aircraft, it is an airspace requirement and follows the transponder rules. Letter attached in this post.

You can get limited traffic and the other ADSB info with: Stratus2s/Foreflight, Foreflight/iPad/Stratus new $200 receiver. Stratux, Open Flight Solutions. But your traffic visibility is basically limited to when you are within the 15 nm radius from an equipped aircraft. Caution, then you see stuff centered from their aircraft NOT yours. No one see you on ADSB, if you’re not equipped out.

uAvionix who designed and built Status’ new gadget is the gear to watch, It can be used in Europe and are introducing stuff here now for certified aircraft. I predict they are what Garmin was to Honeywell at their start. https://www.uavionix.com/

Arguably Stratux and Open Flight is the cheapest partial solution to data access. I feel the FAA err'd when it didn't allow our antiques to use the gear allowed for LSA/Experimental's, actually even aircraft with TC's.

If you do feel you have to fully equip it will be more complex than “normal” as you are into 337’ing gear in (WASS GPS, transponder, encoder, antennas etc.…).

I might suggest waiting and watching uAvionix as the all in one boxes come to for, and how the market responds as it will be an easier, more affordable solution. Of course it depends on your airspace needs.

Actually, most avionics is a minor now...no 337 required.

[mikerice]

Re: Oshkosh 2017

I have a Tcraft with a MGL V-10 radio in a box with a sealed motorcycle battery and external antenna. It has worked very well for 6 years. I want to take my Tcraft deep into Houston class B airspace and while I can legally get inside the 30nm Mode C veil, I am getting more interested in cobbing together ADS-B out to make the trip easier. I have a Sandia TX-165 mode C transponder to install and I am looking for a WAAS GPS/ ADSB box that is small enough to add to my radio box.

I saw a new Trig box that is the size of a deck of cards (cheap, but experimental and not 2020 compliant), and NavWorx is showing off a new box at Oshkosh "that will be approved in September" (we'll see). Navworx is big though, 6x8x2 inches. It looks promising,as it is wifi, ADSB IN/OUT and APPROVED!? WAAS GPS for 2000USD.

Any suggestions out there on other combo ADSB out boxes with GPS? I am thinking Rangr Blue and Silver are the only others I know of.

[astjp2]

Re: Oshkosh 2017

ADsB requires the GPS to provide location and all of the measurements necessary to give heading and altitude. GPS is the basis of ADsB

[mikerice]

Re: Oshkosh 2017

I know that I will need a WAAS GPS, and a UAT transmitter. Looks like iLevil is releasing a BEACON in August that has GPS and ADSB out, but they are saying LSA and experimental only. Any idea why this is so? If it is good enough for LSA to be compliant why wouldn't it be good enough for Tcrafts? This is also what Trig Avionics said at Oshkosh about their TN72 unit (https://www.trig-avionics.com/products/tn72/

I would have also liked to talk about ADSB at the Oshkosh forum for gliders and non-electric aircraft like Trcrafts and Cubs and Aeroncas, but I forgot to raise the topic....

[Scott]

Re: Oshkosh 2017

So here's what I'm planning:
Several manufacturers are now offering a WAAS box that basically installs in-line with your transponder antenna. They require installation of a WAAS antenna. This solution coupled with an ADSB compliant transponder makes you compliant (no Waas/gps required).

We only need a U at antenna for ADSB IN (weather and traffic information which is nice to have but not required to be compliant). There are several ADSB in solutions that provide wireless data to a ipad/tablet. Garmin is going the proprietary route so the data can currently only be used by their devices and tablets with Foresight subscription.

Anyway the ADSB in environment is wide open and expect more solutions, less restrictions and lower costs. Note no need for any certification for ADSB In using tablets and portable receivers.

My plan is currently to build a "portable" vhf/transpomder/lipoly box to fit in the left map box of CF-CLR. Currently leaning toward Trig for both the transponder and VHF and I'll add the ADSB out box at a later date. Other than antenna connections, like many currently make when using portable VHF, there will be no connection to the aircraft, so in my view none of it needs to be certified ( however I think the quality stuff on the market will be) so no STC/337 etc required.

The Trig units have a remarkably small current draw, they actually build the units for Bendix/King and others, and of all the vendors I talked to, their rep was the ONLY one who knew what she was talking about... refreshing and outstanding!

If your determined to be certified in the US, you'll need the TT22 (which is the KT74 rebaged by King). However the TT21 is less money and is also ADSB compatible but does not meet the power output requirements. However unless your planning to install jato on your Tcraft and fly in the flight levels, no one will be able to tell the difference.

I'll also buy a portable ADSB In box for my iPad. I current use FLTPlanGo a free ap, and I'm anticipating someone will release an open IN box that will provide wireless ADSB In data (probably out there already, and I think prices will go down).

That's enough for now (phew! )

PS also saw a couple of vendors offering AHRS boxes with wireless output to ipad/tablets. This basically turns your tablet into a glass cockpit. Cost is around $800 but early days.

[mikerice]

Re: Oshkosh 2017

Nice post Scott,

I too was watching the vendors at Oshkosh 2017 and one I did not see was iLevil. I know they were there, I just missed the booth. I have an iLevil AW2 and it has ADSB-In and AHRS. It has GPS and a battery, so runs about 4 hours on its own. I have used it on a flight TX to KS and back with great success. It needed a power pack connection and had a lot of wires in the cockpit, but it worked great.

My next upgrade is to ADSB-Out so I would be able to get into Class B airspace with a Squawk code. I can go without a xpdr now and in the future, or put in mode C only until 2020, or add a WAAS GPS and UAT for full compliance ADSB-OUT.

My thinking is I don't want to be the Tcraft that is buzzing around under Class B airspace that does not show on anyones ADSB IN. Even though we are allowed to do it, it is not a great idea. Since we don't have to have a xdpr now, even if ATC radar paints the Tcraft, they don't know my altitude ("target 12 o'clock, altitude unknown").

The equipment is coming together and it is nice to know what others are doing. I think that a good sized battery permanently mounted (we have several 337s on this site in the Technical resources), will be more than adequate for all day flight with heavy usage on everything. I have decided I can live with the Armstrong starter, and just would like the ADSB and iPad..... and maybe LED position lights, then I'm running with the big dogs.

[Mark Bowden]

Re: Oshkosh 2017

This is pretty innovative and as innovation goes maybe beats iLevil's BOM in terms of gadget coolness.

https://www.uavionix.com/news/uavionix-reveals-skybeacon-the-first-near-zero-install-ads-b-out-solution/

Mike if you are putting position lights on, check this out as it replaces the light.

AvWeb did a video of it. Wish they had more published tech details out on what is actually in the box, it is supposed to be available in 2018. Anyone talk to them at OSH (I didn't get to go and wanted to).

https://www.avweb.com/videos/uAvionixs-Low-Cost-ADS-B-Out-229409-1.html

Nice thing about the small Trigs is that both will fit in the glove box volume and you still have some room left over.

[mikerice]

Re: Oshkosh 2017

Hi Mark-
Thanks for the heads up on the uAvionix ADSB out solution. You are right, it may even beat Levil's BOM for innovation.

I will definitely be watching this one. I am pretty sure we have wires in the wing, and can extend them to get position lights working too. That would be a plus. I can work on the Mode C transponder, and then add this uAvionix unit when it is released.

[clear_prop1961]

Re: Oshkosh 2017

So, how about a report from OSH from those that went? How many Taylorcraft? What was discussed at the Taylorcraft forum? etc.

[waltermrich]

Re: Oshkosh 2017

I did not get many photos but I saw about a half dozen Taylorcrafts , I arrived on Friday so Im sure there were more. I did see one brown BC12D1 85 built in 1948 it was quite nice and flew all the way from Oregon, I saw it Friday night went back to get a picture Saturday morning and it had already left. It was impressive.

[Robert Lees]

Re: Oshkosh 2017

I had a great time at Osh. Not much of great importance was discussed at the forum, but much important stuff was discussed afterwards! I had the pleasure of meeting the Bakers again, and Mike Rice and Scott and others of this parish.

I saw a brown Taylorcraft on the flightline too...but it was from Michigan, not Oregon