wing and aileron nails

[danglandt]

Working on a 1946 BC-12D that I got as a project. Finding out that the project is a conglomeration of parts evidently from multiple airplanes. Just uncovered the ailerons which were evidently off a flying plane a long time ago. They were a matched pair and were covered with grade A. There is some damage to one rib and some of the leading edge cover. To get the damaged parts off to fix or replace is going to mean pulling nails. The spars look pretty good. Question is what is considered approved or best way for replacing the nails. I assume its not ok to put them back in the same hole as wouldn't hold. On non airplane projects, I have used a hypodermic needle and injected polyurethane varnish or epoxy in nail or screw holes and reused with pretty good results.

Also wondering how they drove the nails at the factory. There is not a lot of room for a hammer when attaching the ribs. With my hand and eye coordination, I can see doing more damage than nail driving.

Dan

[Jim Hartley]

Re: wing and aileron nails

When I did my ailerons I got a good grip on the shank of the nail with a heavy set of pliers and pushed the nails most of the way in. I then pushed them the remainder of the way with the plier heads.

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: wing and aileron nails

Just responded to your other message. I have plenty of post war aileron parts and several complete ailerons. If you want to post some photos of your project and show what you need I am sure we can help out. (you might want to hit the parts of the plane one at a time with different threads for each component).

Hank

[danglandt]

Re: wing and aileron nails

Hi Hank,

I got further into one aileron found mayor cracking and deteriorations around the holes in the center so will have to replace the spar. Suspect the other one is the same. I am interested in some that are complete which you mention. How do I contact you? How do you post pictures. Still new to this.

Thanks Dan

[Robert Lees]

Re: wing and aileron nails

Hello danglandt

I had to replace my aileron spars when I rebuilt my 1946 Taylorcraft, you can see some details about my aileron rebuild here: http://www.taylorcraft.org.uk/Brey_rebuild-Ailerons.htm

I hope this gives you some guidance.

Regards,
Rob

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: wing and aileron nails

Robs photos are GREAT for work like this. I have a stack of ailerons, but like I said the shipping on one is more than the aileron itself is worth. Cheyenne, WY is a LONG way from Virginia Beach VA. Have you considered a vacation to the Chesapeake Bay? You can have one for free if you want it, but I don't know how to get it to you. Weight is NOT the problem, you can hold one with a thumb and two fingers, but they are LONG and a real crush risk (to the aileron).

Can your current spar be used as a pattern? We are having our kitchen and pantry cabinets replaced and one of the sets of spars for the 45 wing were in the house. I asked the cabinet maker if he thought he could make them with some good stock. He said that was super simple for a cabinet maker. If you meet the grain and moisture requirement in the wood you CAN make your own spars. Even if you can't get Stitka Spruce you CAN substitute Douglas Fir for a small weight penalty. You just still have to meet teh specs for the raw wood.

Anyone out there know someone driving west who could carry one? Any truckers who could top load one in a trailer? Certainly won't be a weight penalty and could be tied down with a few feet of duct tape!

Hank

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: wing and aileron nails

Robs photos are GREAT for work like this. I have a stack of ailerons, but like I said the shipping on one is more than the aileron itself is worth. Cheyenne, WY is a LONG way from Virginia Beach VA. Have you considered a vacation to the Chesapeake Bay? You can have one for free if you want it, but I don't know how to get it to you. Weight is NOT the problem, you can hold one with a thumb and two fingers, but they are LONG and a real crush risk (to the aileron).

Can your current spar be used as a pattern? We are having our kitchen and pantry cabinets replaced and one of the sets of spars for the 45 wing were in the house. I asked the cabinet maker if he thought he could make them with some good stock. He said that was super simple for a cabinet maker. If you meet the grain and moisture requirement in the wood you CAN make your own spars. Even if you can't get Stitka Spruce you CAN substitute Douglas Fir for a small weight penalty. You just still have to meet teh specs for the raw wood.

Anyone out there know someone driving west who could carry one? Any truckers who could top load one in a trailer? Certainly won't be a weight penalty and could be tied down with a few feet of duct tape!

Hank

[astjp2]

Re: wing and aileron nails

You can substitute Douglas fir for the aileron spars, 6 grains per inch and no more than a 1 in 15" slope vertical grain, clear...ie no knots. Use the ring shank nails like on the citabria, they don't pull out and get loose like the ones from spruce.

Hi Hank,

I got further into one aileron found mayor cracking and deteriorations around the holes in the center so will have to replace the spar. Suspect the other one is the same. I am interested in some that are complete which you mention. How do I contact you? How do you post pictures. Still new to this.

Thanks Dan

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: wing and aileron nails

If your old spars are at least in one piece it could be less expensive to make them. I didn't have the wood specs available when I responded (and that isn't a good thing to try to do from memory unless you do it all the time like Tim does).

As I said, if we can find a way to get an aileron to you it is yours. (PARTS would be pretty easy to UPS)

Hank

[astjp2]

Re: wing and aileron nails

disassemble, I have a pair in Ogden too that need rebuilt. Ailerons are just time consuming and require attention to detail. I used Doug fir for the spars and the tips, the tip wood had 15+ grains per inch and I had to form with a belt sander using the original piece as an example to build to. Pulling the leading edge skins tight is the hardest part if you don't have them formed real good, I used a piece of pipe and some 2x4's to get them roughed in and then ratchet straps and the harbor freight 1" c clamps to pull it tight and then drilled for the #4 pk screws. Tim

[MBednarek]

Re: wing and aileron nails

The circa-19467 aileron spars of my BC-12D project were delaminated and unusable, but the wood tip. leading edges, ribs, etc. were in great shape and totally reusable. I just purchased spar stock from Aircraft Spruce and produced replacements. To help in attaching the ribs and leading edge, I used a brad driver to start the nails and finished up with a tack hammer. The brad drive works like a miniature pile driver, a typical example can be found on Amazon.com (https://www.amazon.com/Robert-Larson...ic+brad+driver).

[N96337]

Re: wing and aileron nails

If you have a decent lumber supply yard nearby, go there and get the material. As stated above, as long as it meets minimum requirements, you're good to go...that's why there is a chapter in AC43 about wood. I'd never spend the money to order from ACS. Even for wing spar material, I went to a boat yard nearby and got spruce that far exceeded what was in my Tcraft. As long as you take it serious and learn a little about wood, it's not tough to inspect and certify. Get a copy of ANC-19 ( https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?...view=1up;seq=7 ) and do a little reading and get to work. Remember, epoxy isn't legal for certificated aircraft, so get some resourcinol glue and follow the directions.
John

[Scott]

Re: wing and aileron nails

Have a look at the aft side of the spars at each rib location. There's a high probability the ribs have been cutting into the spars. This is a design flaw as the ribs have not enough structural integrity to resist compression loads. The good news is it appears the issue has not lead to a failure. However I recommend a relatively simple solution to properly support the aft portion of each rib. Photos here: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-14faPQzns_...0/DSCN2784.JPG

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-okM9mg4_15k/VJx2Xw9uFuI/AAAAAAAABKU/sBxSb37MGWo/s1600/DSCN2807.JPG

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-YVmjJIvYRUM/VJx77bokxJI/AAAAAAAABLY/nSeE81yDk3g/s1600/DSCN2822.JPG

and full story here: http://c-fclr.blogspot.ca/p/ailerons.html

[danglandt]

Re: wing and aileron nails

Thanks to all for the information. This forum is great and a big help. I am comfortable with building a wood spar as built a VP-1 from plans years ago that am still flying. However, have two wings to rebuild so have a lot to do. Am thinking I might take a vacation to the east coast. Attached some pictures of the fuselage.

Dan

https://www.dropbox.com/s/91rqbxhk6k4eui7/IMG_2380.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/iuxbofpacvs7j8a/IMG_2381.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/fv8vwaup70a8ufu/IMG_2382.jpg?dl=0

[Robert Lees]

Re: wing and aileron nails

... Use the ring shank nails like on the citabria, they don't pull out and get loose like the ones from spruce.

Hey Tim, I'm replacing the wing covering on a Pitts S2A at the moment, and have the ali leading edges off *

Have you got a source for these Citabria nails? I will be using the original Ali L/E skins, but I don't want to use the existing holes in the spar for the nails, but maybe "better" nails might allow that. Otherwise it's new holes. And I'm not very happy about that, either.

Ta in advance.
Rob

* The reason for the recovering is that nails in the leading edges had all worked out/heads corroded off, only the fabric was holding the L/E on!