wing and aileron nails

[Guest]

Re: wing and aileron nails

Hey Tim, I'm replacing the wing covering on a Pitts S2A at the moment, and have the ali leading edges off *

Have you got a source for these Citabria nails? I will be using the original Ali L/E skins, but I don't want to use the existing holes in the spar for the nails, but maybe "better" nails might allow that. Otherwise it's new holes. And I'm not very happy about that, either.

Ta in advance.
Rob

* The reason for the recovering is that nails in the leading edges had all worked out/heads corroded off, only the fabric was holding the L/E on!

I am not Tim but I bet you can get them here => http://www.americanchampionaircraft....ent-parts.html

Dave, a.k.a. not Tim, (for programmers and VHDL coders => !Tim).

[Robert Lees]

Re: wing and aileron nails

I am not Tim but I bet you can get them here => http://www.americanchampionaircraft....ent-parts.html

Dave, a.k.a. not Tim, (for programmers and VHDL coders => !Tim).

Thanks for the link, Dave. The ACA site you reference seems a bit vague (no parts for sale...I assume I have to email them for a nail spec (and cost/1000) that they won't give me).

But you have me confused with the rest of your post!
Rob

[Guest]

Re: wing and aileron nails

I would fill out that little form on the right side and submit OR send an email to the parts guy who's name is Chad, email is [email protected].

They have everything there for Aeronca and Citabria.

Sorry for the confusion. It was throw back thoughts to the days when I had to know some program languages, my bad.

Dave

[Dick Smith]

Re: wing and aileron nails

Rob, this service letter from that company references 14 guage ringed nails in Service Kit No. 273. http://www.americanchampionaircraft....sets/sl139.pdf

Dick

By the way, your recent comment about hangars has stirred a shameful burst of envy in this Alaskan!!

[Robert Lees]

Re: wing and aileron nails

Thanks Dave...I'll try that in the new year after the "Holidays" (what we call "Christmas" over here, being traditionally [and still largely] a Christian nation )

Thanks also Dick, that SB is useful info. What comment about hangars? I forget because I go to bed approximately once in every day.

Rob

[Mark Julicher]

Re: wing and aileron nails

FWIW,
The 14 ga ring shank nails work very well, but they are aggressive and tear into the wood.
Rainbow Aircraft Services has a STC that allows the use of screws instead of nails in the Aeroncas.
I have used both methods =, screws and nails now, and except for the expense of the STC, I like the screws better.

This is just an additional data point for all the rebuilders in the tribe.

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: wing and aileron nails

What PN screws did they use?

Hank

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: wing and aileron nails

What PN screws did they use?

Hank

[Mark Julicher]

Re: wing and aileron nails

Number 4 PK screws. 3/8 long.

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: wing and aileron nails

A #4 screw would be a #4 Gauge Number with a Max. Head Diameter of 0.225, a Basic Decimal Size of 0.112, and nearest fractional shank diameter of 7/64 and average Decimal size of 0.075.

The Root diameter is 5/64 with 22 threads per inch. Break out your dial caliper when shopping since no one seems to label screw bins with AN numbers!


Shank diameter is measured on the smooth portion of the screw above the threads. Root diameter is measured between the threads and does not include the thread height.

I don't know what screw heads are specified but suspect it would be a Pan head (low rounded head, not a Round head which sticks up more). I doubt a CSK head would be used (counter sink) or oval (kind of a combination CSK and round head)

The term "P-K" stands for Parker-Kalon, a manufacturer of sheet metal screws in WW-II. The round head screws are AN530, but I don't know the AN
class for the truss-head screws that seem to be all over my plane on things like fairings. ACS&S uses their own part numbering scheme that for the size, length, point style, head style, and drive style.

From one of their old catalogues, the #4, 1/4"-long, truss-headed, sharp-pointed, PK screws used by the millions on wings and for .016" leading edge skin onto ribs and ailerons are ACS&S part number 4X1/4-A-TR-??. The last two letters are for the slot or Phillips heads. Prior to WW-II there were no Phillips and I am pretty sure Taylorcraft went to Phillips when their stock of slot heads were used up like most of the rest of the industry (my assumption, not based on factual knowledge). For Stainless an SS suffix is added, but it is bad engineering practice to put SS screws through aluminum (yea, I do it too, but watch for the aluminum corroding!)

All I needed was the size screw to get me into my fastener data! ;-)

Thanks Mark!!

Hank

[Scott]

Re: wing and aileron nails

So a thought provoking question..... (I hope)

Do we really care if the nails back out?
They're on really there to hold things in place during assembly. Once the fabric, leading edges etc. are in place, is even the complete loss of the nails likely to lead to any sort of significant failure?
S

[Edwin Otha]

Re: wing and aileron nails

I picked the nails online, Google 14ga ring shank nails either Stainless or Bronze.
I don't like plated steel nails because they rust and split the spar.
If you want to use the same holes, epoxy a round toothpick in the holes and sand them flush.
Good luck in removing them. If they don't snap off they pull a plug of wood out. The use makes a spar a 1 time use item. I avoid them if I can.
EO

[Mark Julicher]

Re: wing and aileron nails

Thank you for the complete analysis of a screw. I know all that.
Go get a package of #4 PK screws from Aircraft Spruce and you will have the correct screws.
Pan head, Phillips. Obviously not going be countersunk.

Do you buy acetylsalicylic acid or Aspirin?

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: wing and aileron nails

I knew that you would and several others did, but not so sure about many others in the tribe. We have a really good industrial fastener outlet here for the Navy and ship yards. They have pretty much EVERYTHING and are very knowledgeable about what they have in stock, but for things like these screws you still have to know what you are looking for to get what you really want. I saw MANY different types of screws there that looked close to what I wanted, but getting the AN number along with my old fastener books locked it down. MUCH faster (and less expensive) than ACSS for me. Not everything is stocked by AN or NAS number.

Hank

[PA1195]

Re: wing and aileron nails

I sure appreciate any info provided here including hardware specs. As a non-A&P anything I can learn to make me a better owner/operator is worthwhile.

Merry Christmas from Santa Land.

Gary