I need an ELT

[Robert Lees]

I need an ELT, and I'd like to pre-order one for me to collect at Oshkosh (so not much time left before I need to order).

Question 1: Does anyone have an old 121.5 one that still satisfies the FAA requirement?
Question 2: Which 406-compliant ELT is the cheapest, that is a good fit in a '46 Taylorcraft?

Thanks in anticipation,

Rob

[Mark Bowden]

Re: I need an ELT

Rob,

Aviation Consumer reviewed new 406's this Feb. if you are a subscriber. These are the three cheapest of the eight they reviewed. Their top pick of the bunch was the ARTEX 1000 and the ARTEX 345 for us slower aircraft. They were 2nd and 3rd least costly, lowest price was ACK E-04/R. The 345 was $550 list, and the ACK $450 list.

One of their points is that personal locator beacons are much more accurate, if you are alive or unhurt to push the button. If you want accurate location it needs onboard GPS receiver or integrated into your avionics. And almost nobody listens to 121.5 anymore. I think ACK has a decent, light, small, affordable 121.5 unit too.

Mark

[Robert Lees]

Re: I need an ELT

Thanks, Mark.

The irony is that I do have a 406 plb that I took on the trips across America, but I am told that I need a fixed installed ELT.

In some ways, the FAA are so behind EASA it beggars belief that the FAA are actually in the understanding of modern technology.

Rob

[astjp2]

Re: I need an ELT

EBC 406 is one of the smallest and has a metal case. It was more money than the cheap ones but I paid the extra since I have seen many of the plastic ones crack in a few years...especially the orange and yellow case 121.5 ones...

[Robert Lees]

Re: I need an ELT

Tim: thanks.

I'm seriously chewing a wasp, because I've had this aircraft for a year now, and it's the first time that I've been told I need an ELT (My fault, of course; I should be aware of the FAA regs). But why the hell did the person (IA) undergoing the previous annual in June 2015 not raise it as an issue?

This was the same guy who f*$@cked up the engine, and now I have yet more unexpected expense. Further, I now cannot fly it to Oshkosh due to some silly rule about ELT's, despite the fact that I have always carried a PLB. Sometimes EASA rules are better than the so-called "Freedom" rules of the USA.

So I am very annoyed, not only with the USA "system" that will not allow a PLB in place of an ELT, but with the w@nker that in June 2015 gave it an annual. Do IA's ever get audited as to their legality and effectiveness?

On Wednesday I'm getting on a jet to fly to Chicago, where I will get drunk and enjoy the company of friends at Oshkosh. I'll get over my frustrations by then!

Rob

[Guest]

Re: I need an ELT

Tim: thanks.

I'm seriously chewing a wasp, because I've had this aircraft for a year now, and it's the first time that I've been told I need an ELT (My fault, of course; I should be aware of the FAA regs). But why the hell did the person (IA) undergoing the previous annual in June 2015 not raise it as an issue?

This was the same guy who f*$@cked up the engine, and now I have yet more unexpected expense. Further, I now cannot fly it to Oshkosh due to some silly rule about ELT's, despite the fact that I have always carried a PLB. Sometimes EASA rules are better than the so-called "Freedom" rules of the USA.

So I am very annoyed, not only with the USA "system" that will not allow a PLB in place of an ELT, but with the w@nker that in June 2015 gave it an annual. Do IA's ever get audited as to their legality and effectiveness?

On Wednesday I'm getting on a jet to fly to Chicago, where I will get drunk and enjoy the company of friends at Oshkosh. I'll get over my frustrations by then!

Rob

Sorry to hear that Rob.

The ELT is not required for training flights (CFR §91.207(f)(3)) so the airplane probably never had one because the owner claimed he was training and within 50nm.

The IA was legally correct because the pilot makes the call regarding the type of flights the plane was used for.

It is an obvious fraud on the prior pilot/owners part and the IA was legal but he was not effective and should have given you a heads up.

No, we don't get audited at all unless you mess up or get a big complaint.

Sorry for your troubles, Dave

[Ray36048]

Re: I need an ELT

Stay away from Ameri-King. Back in Mar the FAA shut them down due to manufacturing issues. I have not heard any thing more. I also have not see an AD note recalling their ELT's. But, this could happen.

[3Dreaming]

Re: I need an ELT

Do the records not show it having ELT battery replacement along the way? Do the records show it ever having a ELT installed?

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: I need an ELT

I thought the 121.5 units were still legal (if useless). If it was me I would buy the cheapest 121.5 unit I could and make sure the battery was within date requirements. Put it in and get it signed off and forget about it till the next annual. If you crash the chances one of our ELTs will actually work are abysmal. If it DOES go off the chances of anyone hearing it are ridiculously small. If someone DOES hear it they will need directional antennas to find you (good luck).
The ELT is a regulatory requirement, so you have to put it in, but in my opinion they are a total waste of payload and time. I still have one. That fulfills the LEGAL requirement. It has NO value for safety. It just makes some minion in the bowels of the FAA building happy.

Since I care about YOUR SAFETY, get a Spot Personal Satellite GPS Messenger, Tracker & Locator. They cost LESS than most ELTs, can be hand carried and allow anyone following your trip to see exactly where you are INCLUDING the spot where your signal ended in case you had a VERY violent arrival. With a Spot they can FIND YOU, which is the whole purpose of the ELT, except it usually doesn't work.

Do what is required to be legal, then do what you NEED TO to be safe. You can't beat stupid from the government, but you can do MORE than they require and take care of yourself while following their rules.

Hank

[Guest]

Re: I need an ELT

Do the records not show it having ELT battery replacement along the way? Do the records show it ever having a ELT installed?

Good questions Tom, I jumped the gun and assumed there never was one.

My apologizes that was a mistake.

Dave

[Ray36048]

Re: I need an ELT

Very few 121.5 for sale. America-King is the lowest price. Others cost as much as the 406.

I am with Hank, I would like to see the data on lives saved.

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: I need an ELT

When I was the NASA AGATE Manager in the General Aviation Program Office we had the data. It was "disappointing" to say the least. We suggested back then that the basic architecture of the system was illogical. You do NOT want to send a signal when you crash (and hope the ELT works and was not damaged in the crash). You want to send a continuous series of positions from GPS where each new position bumps a prior one off the stack. These are received by the Sat Com system and relayed to ground stations. When the signal stops moving or turns off a simple algorithm determines if the signal ended at an airport or on a mountain side (or other non-mission end location). The concept was rejected by the FAA but picked up by the personal locator industry. They used the internet to improve on the idea so your family can see where you are at any time and keep a watch for you. The system WORKS and works really well. Several types of personal locators can be bought for under a couple of hundred dollars.
Effective, inexpensive and user friendly. Concept rejected and we got the 406 system instead.

Hank

Wish there was a palm face plant emoticon

[astjp2]

Re: I need an ELT

well I know several guys that have been found by ELT's going off after a crash, not the best way but better than nothing...and required by the regs so in for a penny, in for a pound...I have an old ebc 121.5 that I took out of mine..make me an offer..and the ameriking are junk, plastic was always cracking...

[PA1195]

Re: I need an ELT

Some if not all Federal USDA, DOI, OAS, and Part 135 Aircraft chartered by Federal employees require use of this system or similar. I haven't been involved or kept track just have anecdotal reports and have noted the myriad of antennae on the subject planes parked near me:

https://www.aff.gov

http://www.ntsb.gov/news/events/Documents/Roth.pdf

I-Pads, glass cockpits, SPOT, Delorme inReach, Spidertracks, and the above are all moving forward. As Hank notes there were and still are other options. Especially as in the end the location of non-GPS supported ELT location is a general guess at best especially in mountainous terrain. Better than nothing is little more than that as it assumes the integrity of the on-board equipment remains intact after impact.

Maybe they're hoping on ADS-B in the future to pick up any support slack.

Gary

[3Dreaming]

Re: I need an ELT

well I know several guys that have been found by ELT's going off after a crash, not the best way but better than nothing...and required by the regs so in for a penny, in for a pound...I have an old ebc 121.5 that I took out of mine..make me an offer..and the ameriking are junk, plastic was always cracking...

Does the EBC meet the TSO requirements requirements for a new installation?