extended baggage stc

[Dick Smith]

Re: extended baggage stc

This isn't very heavy, but the extended baggage makes it possible to haul it safely and legally. If something is heavy, I want it right beside me, close up behind me, under me. The weight is close to where it should be. The "fluffy" stuff goes toward the rear or is fudged as far forward as practical. Know how the plane is going to act as you burn-off your fuel-weight. This baggage compartment isn't very pretty, but it's in a working airplane.
This pix of a Canadian fellow on floats shows some of the meat strapped right where your butt goes and more weight is right up close behind the seat. And he has the antler weight centered pretty close to the right spot. He appears to be flying from the right side, as the antlers tend to get in the way. Dick

[N96337]

Re: extended baggage stc

Got your phone call tonight, Dick...I'll try to call tomorrow.
John

[Obelix]

Re: extended baggage stc

I noticed there is a stc for extended baggage for the bc12d. When I read the stc it references the F-19. Id like to add the extended baggage stc, does anyone have any drawings or pics?

Hi Plater

The first 3 pics is not mine, I found it some time ago on the internet.

The last pic is my aircraft, I followed the same idea, cut the holes in the side panels to save some weight. I lined the whole inside with carpet afterwards.

I will install an O-200 on the long mount, hopfully before the end of the year.

[Pilot78]

Re: extended baggage stc

Does anyone know who the owner is of the first 3 pictures in the post above?? I am restoring my F-19 and he has the butterfly skylights in his. I would like to get some up close pics of the skylights as I start mine.

Brian
SLC-UT
F-19 Sportsman
TF #1023

[braol]

In the 8+ years since thus topic was started has anyone done the baggage compartment in carbon fiber panels? That alone would make a big difference in the weight/moment arm of the compartment materials and increase the utility of such a great mod. (Now, if we could just get a titanium tail-wheel spring like the one for super cubs....)

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: extended baggage stc

Does anyone know who the owner is of the first 3 pictures in the post above?? I am restoring my F-19 and he has the butterfly skylights in his. I would like to get some up close pics of the skylights as I start mine.

Brian
SLC-UT
F-19 Sportsman
TF #1023

Right after WW-II Taylorcraft was experimenting with several skylights and my 45 had one type. At the time they thought they would get a lot of good wood workers back.....but they were wrong. There was a serious shortage of wood workers after the war as most went into the post war construction boom. That was a big reason for all the steel (metal) kitchen cabinets that were "popular" after the war. The prototype wood skylights in my plane were beautiful and REALLY well made, but certainly NOT suitable for mass production. They were a ROYAL PAIN to restore with numerous pieces of wood with complex changing angles and difficult compound cuts that "look" like they are straight but are not. Nearly every cut on every piece of wood has a curve in it to get the Plexi straight and flat. As for how they work, they are fantastic! When you look up the Plexi is within inches of your eyes and even though the skylights aren't that big your eyes are close enough that the field of view is huge and the Plexi is small enough that you don't roast when the Sun is shining through them. I love them, but I sure wouldn't want to build them again! The metal "Butterfly" skylights seem to have been one of the ways to deal with the loss of skilled wood workers. I would imagine, having built the wood frames, that the shapes are a LOT more complex than they look!
I have photos of the wood frames I built, but they are on my cell phone and I need to figure out how to download them to my computer. If you are a real masochist you could try to build wood ones.

Hank

[astjp2]

In the 8+ years since thus topic was started has anyone done the baggage compartment in carbon fiber panels? That alone would make a big difference in the weight/moment arm of the compartment materials and increase the utility of such a great mod. (Now, if we could just get a titanium tail-wheel spring like the one for super cubs....)

So add 100 lbs with a Lycoming and then take 2 off the tail? Carbon fiber is a corrosion nightmare unless done correctly. Most people just want good brakes and shielded ignition.

[Ragwing nut]

In the 8+ years since thus topic was started has anyone done the baggage compartment in carbon fiber panels? That alone would make a big difference in the weight/moment arm of the compartment materials and increase the utility of such a great mod. (Now, if we could just get a titanium tail-wheel spring like the one for super cubs....)

Carbon fiber will not have a sizeable difference over the plywood interior. It is also counter intuitive since with a lycoming install there is a lead weight bolted to the tail post for cg.

[Hank Jarrett]

Found this photo of the 45 skylight when I fitted up all the new wood with the old damaged metal frame pieces and plexi.

Hank

[braol]

So add 100 lbs with a Lycoming and then take 2 off the tail?

The gist of what I was saying was part serious and partly as an academic engineering question (which is always entertaining). Considering all the limited traditional ways to lower the empty weight of a Taylorcraft and increase what we can carry, the technological advances in materials like titanium and carbon fiber are VERY exciting.

The titanium tail-spring is actually 3.7 lbs. lighter than stock which...when calculating for the moment arm...means you could carry an additional 8 lbs. in the baggage compartment (minus the weight of the new compartment of course AND as long as you don't exceed gross max weight). What I am looking for is the additional space for engine covers and maybe some extra winter clothes or a sleeping bag/nylon tent. I also want JUST the extended baggage space, not an increase in gross weight anyhow. Maybe then I could fly with my wife AND an engine cover AND an extra set of Carhartts for a change. My concept is to not necessarily exceed any weight limits as the current 50lb limit of the 'baggage area' of the Taylorcraft is already overly generous, considering my usual passenger/fuel loads AND the size of the stock area to begin with... Essentially just approval of the compartment.

And regarding the corrosion element, the FAA Airframe Manual is very clear on isolating the carbon fiber from where it meets any aluminum or steel with a fiberglass spacer. A creative use of Adel clamps might even forgo the need of the spacers if it became a concern.

I'm already working on carbon fiber panels to replace the panel under the seat behind my heels (that one is almost ready) and also the two cockpit floorboards for a net weight savings of just over 4 lbs. I've already started to eyeball the triangular aluminum panel forward of the bungees and I just SALIVATE over the thought of a carbon fiber cowling or maybe even an instrument panel. At the very least it is fun to explore with the online community the realm of what's possible. Maybe someday a visionary will sell a "Carbon Taylorcraft"....with flaps please...

[Hank Jarrett]

What is another great thing is when you can get a read from your IA as to what "interior and upholstery" covers are (no pun intended). The kick panel under your thighs is a good example. It is NOT structural and only to keep junk from sliding back into the bungee area and tail cone. I made mine from antique "Hat Shelf" material that is light and fairly strong (but NOT water resistant!) My IA agreed we should call it "Upholstery" and we are allowed to change that with minimal paperwork. Replacing the seat covers and cushions is also covered this way and since the fire codes today didn't exist when our planes were built they don't have to be used either (I am ALL FOR fire resistance but aircraft upholstery materials are VERY expensive and if you look at the fire testing data most fire resistant materials use different, but equivalent testing!) All of my interiors use fire tested and rated materials but are from boat and automotive sources....all legal. I like Carbon Fiber A LOT, but substituting it for aluminum for things like instrument panels was a problem. The FAA didn't like changing materials when original spec parts were still available. I ended up making a new aluminum panel for my 42 (it was different from those available) and repaired the one in my 45. The key to owner produced parts with some modification seems to be availability from "official" sources. The FAA HAS FINALLY agreed that the Taylorcraft "factory" exists in name only and if their catalogue is the only place you can buy a part, you can't buy the part. We are lucky we seem to have a pretty good stock of parts to use to make copies from the generous people who have original parts waiting to go into restorations (or people who have made good drawings before they put them in).

Hank

[Mark Bowden]

Protecting carbon fiber from dis-similar metals corrosion when in contact with steel or aluminum has standard practices that are going on 50 year old technology..

Within th layup, in the area of contact, a layer of 120 style fiberglass is applied which is 0.004" thick. This layer also provides delaminate protection for the structural plys when edge trimming or drilling (use a Dreamer bit for drilling). And install fasteners, wet, with epoxy primer.

In the baggage case, you are just replacing a stitched fabric bag with side walls of something else. It is non-structural interior parts. Total non issue, just there to keep stuff from rolling around and falling into the control cables.

Just remember that the 50 lb baggage limit from a weight and balance perspective has a station limit of the orginal baggage sling. When you stow stuff further aft you now have to pay attention to CG loading! You cannot simply use the standard Taylorcraft statement that if you stay under 50 lbs. you can't go out of the CG limits.

And in the extended baggage area you need provisions to secure the load from movement. You don't want 50 lbs of stuff in the orginal baggage station rolling aft 3 feet.

Mark

[Mark Bowden]

Protecting carbon fiber from dis-similar metals corrosion when in contact with steel or aluminum has standard practices that are going on 50 year old technology..

Within th layup, in the area of contact, a layer of 120 style fiberglass is applied which is 0.004" thick. This layer also provides delaminate protection for the structural plys when edge trimming or drilling (use a Dreamer bit for drilling). And install fasteners, wet, with epoxy primer.

In the baggage case, you are just replacing a stitched fabric bag with side walls of something else. It is non-structural interior parts. Total non issue, just there to keep stuff from rolling around and falling into the control cables.

Just remember that the 50 lb baggage limit from a weight and balance perspective has a station limit of the orginal baggage sling. When you stow stuff further aft you now have to pay attention to CG loading! You cannot simply use the standard Taylorcraft statement that if you stay under 50 lbs. you can't go out of the CG limits.

And in the extended baggage area you need provisions to secure the load from movement. You don't want 50 lbs of stuff in the orginal baggage station rolling aft 3 feet.

Mark

[Robert Lees]

...I also want JUST the extended baggage space, not an increase in gross weight anyhow. ....

You can't do that, legally.

[Robert Lees]

...I also want JUST the extended baggage space, not an increase in gross weight anyhow. ....

You can't do that, legally.

.