Taylorcraft 2000 LLC Is FOR SALE 3-5-08

[jstall]

Re: Taylorcraft 2000 LLC Is FOR SALE 3-5-08

Yes Yes, Well Said

Mr Pavement

[fearofpavement]

Re: Taylorcraft 2000 LLC Is FOR SALE 3-5-08

To anyone considering purchasing any assets of T-craft they will need to be VERY careful that what they are purchasing is from someone that actually has the legal right to sell it. I can envision all sorts of attachments and liens being on the tools, parts, equipment, fixtures, etc. Even the type certificates will need to be studied careful to determine exactly who has the right to sell. Have past transfers been properly executed? Who do the courts show as owners? Who does the FAA show as owners? If they are not the same which has precedence? Do employees have unpaid wages? are there "other liabilities" that will be passed along with the type certificate and other assets? I am no legal expert (by a long shot) but am suspecting that unless accounts payable have been negated by legal action (ie, court order) these liabilities will pass to the new owners as to my knowledge there has not been a "bankruptcy". This very well may extend to those with paid but unfilled parts orders. So even "free" may not be that great of a deal from a financial aspect. And what about any pending lawsuits against the company. Not only the ones that relate to unfulfilled promises but those that may concern product liability. Not aware of any product lawsuits but it would sure be something to look into before signing anything...
The more I think about it about the only "safe" way to acquire any assets of the company would be post bankruptcy as I believe during a liquidation the liabilities "fall off" and one is just picking up scraps.
And based on reasons above I am not convinced that D&E, Patrick or whomever is running or owns Taylorcraft has any legal release of obligation to provide a refund or product to those that have already paid for and not received parts or services. BUYER BEWARE.

[VictorBravo]

Re: Taylorcraft 2000 LLC Is FOR SALE 3-5-08

Make sure you remind them of the difference between asking price, selling price, and cash value in the current situation.

[matsuthunder200]

Re: Taylorcraft 2000 LLC Is FOR SALE 3-5-08

I wont mention any names but i have herd talk here in alaska about someone here interested in buying the taylorcraft place out.

[Ragwing nut]

Re: Taylorcraft 2000 LLC Is FOR SALE 3-5-08

Hi Mike,

Do you make a model that fits t-crafts?

Dave

Oh yes. We can build a wood prop for just about anything that ever had one. I don't advertise because we are still dealing with Designee issues which have been causing delivery issues. people still find me though through word of mouth. Our main target market is authentic WW1 props for guys scrath building WW1 aircraft and using original engines.

[Mike Woodson]

Re: Taylorcraft 2000 LLC Is FOR SALE 3-5-08

Forrest:

Let's see if we have enough to get the Type Cert. as a first step. You know more than I, but the Swift guys acquired their TC years ago. How did they get it and how do they function?

Re: Taylorcraft 2000 LLC Is FOR SALE 3-5-08

How do you make a fortune in airplanes? Start with a larger fortune. Anyone thinking of building airplanes for profit in todays market is smoking a crack pipe. My grandpa and I tried to tell the factory this in the 80's and early 90's when we were parts dealers for the factory. Tried to tell Harry this when he started as well. Everyone has a pipe dream to be an airplane manufacturer. If everyone here had any idea how difficult it is to deal with the FAA on a manufacturing level (I know a few of you do), not to mention the liability, you would run from the idea. How do I know this, for those that don't know, I own Falcon Propellers and operate and maintain 26 Type Certificates.

Hi Mike,

Do you make a model that fits t-crafts?

Dave

Re: Taylorcraft 2000 LLC Is FOR SALE 3-5-08

I could go 400 AFTER I buy a set of struts from the foundation. Brie

I don't follow.

How do you buy struts from the foundation?

Dave

[Ed O'Brien]

Re: Taylorcraft 2000 LLC Is FOR SALE 3-5-08

I'm sitting in a room full of History. I've been researching a different project, but this I know:
"From 1942-1945 the 5th largest scheduled air service in America was flown in 65HP T-Crafts and Luscombes. Headquartered at Peterson Air Base in Colorado Springs the "Mountain Boys-CAP Courier Service" ran 20,000 hours a month along 237 routes with 88.7% on time delivery success. And now the surprising/amazing fact!!! They ran this air service through the inter-mountain West from Wichita, Oklahoma, and Texas through Colorado, Utah, Wyoming, New Mexico, Arizona... and into California. Delivering briefcases full of secret orders for bomber bases, fighter wings, and War material suppliers. It was the fax machine of their day and helped win the war. These guys ran 24/7/365, although 39 crewmen died." With the high price of gas and today's rules you couldn't reproduce the plane or the service?... well, maybe that has more to do with us... than the T-Craft.
With regards;
ED OBRIEN

[barnstmr]

Re: Taylorcraft 2000 LLC Is FOR SALE 3-5-08

I have reserved comment also on this so far. Just been watching to see whats developing here. Mike is exactly right. He has touched on the main point. The asking price is WAY out of line from what the foundation really needs. The $ 3/5 MILLION price tag dooms the feasibility study from the start. What a shame for the fixtures and approved data to be locked up in such a financial quagmire! I would applaud anyone who might succeed in freeing up the APPROVED data from this mess and make it somehow available for supporting the continued operations of our airplanes.

Obviously we are all willing to pitch in for the good of our beloved Taylorcrafts. And we should be encouraging and supporting our Foundation to be involved in such efforts.

SO..... lets focus on what do we really need for our airplanes.
We need approved data so that we can make parts or get parts made and to do major repairs and alterations to keep our airplanes flying.

Having one complete and comprehensive parts supply house would be nice. And it would be nice if someone were producing new complete airplanes. I believe this is a great dream and perhaps some creative management team may find a way to make these things happen. Face it, we would all love to be involved as a team player. But this is not what we need.

I think this foundation should stay focused on the real NEED as stated above. If we all want to pitch in to do something about this, lets not jump into a $3/4 million snowball. Instead, lets continue and increase our efforts at supporting each other with creative ways to produce and share approved data and quality parts. Some of our needs are costly and difficult. But we can find ways to deal with the FAA and manufacturing or repairing parts in ways that are nowhere near the financial costs in getting involved with the factory mess. There have been many fine examples of people doing such. They would probably do more if they just had more support.

So my plan i$ to recognize and $upport tho$e among u$ who have proven they can get thing$ done/approved/airworthy, etc..

[Ragwing nut]

Re: Taylorcraft 2000 LLC Is FOR SALE 3-5-08

I know the point has been made, just throwing in my .02. With that being said, it would still take a very large building just to store the fixtures and inventory. It would be nice if the foundation owned the rights, but I wouldn;t pay anywhere near the asking price which I would bet is close to what it would cost to bail the current owners out of the financial hole the company is in.

[taylorcraftbc65]

Re: Taylorcraft 2000 LLC Is FOR SALE 3-5-08

I could go 400 AFTER I buy a set of struts from the foundation. Brie

I could go the $1000 if we get enough members, possibly more if necessary.

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: Taylorcraft 2000 LLC Is FOR SALE 3-5-08

For all those reminding us you can't make money owning "Taylorcraft", yes, we know. Read the whole thread. ANYONE investing in a share in Taylorcraft factory ownership will probably need to sign a "Black Hole" agreement that they NEVER expect to make a dime. As to management of the assets, my original idea was to have the "property" managed by a group of individual who either own or represent at least 100 shares. ONLY they will run the company. The numbers should be adjusted to keep the total team down to under 10 people we all trust. I can think of 3 or 4 right off the top who should be on that team, the first being Forrest (if he is crazy enough to take it on).
I don't think ANYONE who is serious about chipping in to buy the assets ever expects to see a dime back (including the original principal).
Hank

All certified nut cases line up here. :tup:

[Karl Rigdon]

Re: Taylorcraft 2000 LLC Is FOR SALE 3-5-08

This a copy/paste from AVweb today


TAYLORCRAFT REPOSSESSED: STRUT CUSTOMERS CONTACTED
Taylorcraft Aviation LLC has been repossessed by its previous owners and that has affected an undetermined number of customers who had paid $3,500 for new lift struts but haven’t received them yet. J. Scot Ruffner, who is managing the repossession of the Brownsville, Texas, company for the former owner, Taylorcraft 2000 LLC, told AVweb he’s trying to contact everyone who paid for a set of struts before the Feb. 21 repossession date so they can figure out where to go from here. “Anyone out there who has paid for a set of struts and has not been contacted by me should call me right away (561-547-7931) so we can get an accurate picture [of how many are affected],” Ruffner said. Installation of the new, sealed struts eliminates the inspection requirements of an airworthiness directive (AD) issued last year to address corrosion issues in the original struts. More...

[jstall]

Re: Taylorcraft 2000 LLC Is FOR SALE 3-5-08

How do you make a fortune in airplanes? Start with a larger fortune. Anyone thinking of building airplanes for profit in todays market is smoking a crack pipe. My grandpa and I tried to tell the factory this in the 80's and early 90's when we were parts dealers for the factory. Tried to tell Harry this when he started as well. Everyone has a pipe dream to be an airplane manufacturer. If everyone here had any idea how difficult it is to deal with the FAA on a manufacturing level (I know a few of you do), not to mention the liability, you would run from the idea. How do I know this, for those that don't know, I own Falcon Propellers and operate and maintain 26 Type Certificates.

WELL SAID WITH THE COMPETION OF NEWER DESIGNS, THE PROCESSES OF THE FAA, AND OTHER CRITERIA, I AGREE, IT IS TOTALLY IMPOSSIBLE TO
RESURECT THE DINOSAUR, THEY ARE GREAT A/C WERE THEN AND NOW, BUT THE TIME FOR THAT IS PROBABLY OVER, GENERAL AVIATION IN GENERAL IS GOING TO BE FACING SOME REALLY TOUGH TIMES, IN THE SMALL PISTON A/C MARKET, THE LOSS OF FUELS, REGULATIONS, MORE
RESTRICED AIRSPACE, WE WILL BE JUST LIKE EUROPE IN 10 YEARS OR LESS

JS