has everyone on here checked to see of they have the required equipment?

[astjp2]

The CAR 4 requirements are different that the FAR's, found that I have been flying for 20 years without an extinguisher but it is required per car4a502 and it must be UL listed or equivalent...

[N96337]

Wouldn't fly without one. Two things terrify me about flying...a midair, and an inflight fire.
John

[PA1195]

Just finished this book about an Alaskan old-timer and early Taylorcraft pilot: https://www.amazon.com/Al-Wright-Min.../dp/0910871132

He describes a fire few would have survived. I doubt he had his carbon tetrachloride spray gizmo that day. Today we have Halon and it's right under my right knee always.

Gary

[astjp2]

Just finished this book about an Alaskan old-timer and early Taylorcraft pilot: https://www.amazon.com/Al-Wright-Min.../dp/0910871132

He describes a fire few would have survived. I doubt he had his carbon tetrachloride spray gizmo that day. Today we have Halon and it's right under my right knee always.

Gary

https://www.adn.com/bush-pilot/article/legends-alaska-aviation-al-wright/2012/09/17/

[Mark Bowden]

Did they apply for TC under Car 3? With subsequent model updates "same as except" application. Not likely needed then.

[astjp2]

No, Car 4 per TCDS

[PA1195]

And don't forget your first aid kit. Very important in case of injury.

Gary

[3Dreaming]

Tim, I'm not certain that regulations regarding certification in the 1930's automatically mean the equipment is still required today. What is your regulatory pathway to coming to your conclusion?

[Ragwing nut]

I don't see it listed as required equipment on TCDS, not to say it may be required on a different TCDS

[astjp2]

It’s in car4 that I listed

[3Dreaming]

It’s in car4 that I listed

Yep I read the post, and looked up the regulation. Question still stands.

[PA1195]

CAR Part 4 5/38 Sec. 04.510 on. Like I mentioned in #7 a first aid kit is also required. There's equivalency allowed for the fire extinguisher. We've discussed this in the past.

Gary

[3Dreaming]

I'm not arguing that it wasn't required for certification, it is clearly spelled out in CAR 4. CAR 4 has long been superseded. How would you show the regulatory path to someone that a fire extinguisher and first aid kit are required using the existing regulations. To me simply showing a regulation that is no longer current without a path to get there doesn't carry much weight.

[PA1195]

Excellent discussion and begs the need to further inform. CAR 4 as amended was followed (even perhaps superseded as has been mentioned) by other regulations pertaining to certification at a later date. Tom and Dr. Tim maybe you folks and hopefully others can offer factual information about how those subsequent regulations apply to earlier non-included aircraft, engines, and propellers? I'd like to know what Civil or Federal Aviation regs apply to my Taylorcraft and why one takes precedent over another? If the current TCDS A-696 Rev. 25 2009 says CAR 4 as of May 1938, why and under what circumstances do others apply?

Edit: For discussion I suggest CAR 4 still applies per Sec. 04.510. CAR 4a, CAR 3, and Part 23 applies only to aircraft certified when they were in effect, not prior. Let's find out.

Gary

[Ragwing nut]

I'm not arguing that it wasn't required for certification, it is clearly spelled out in CAR 4. CAR 4 has long been superseded. How would you show the regulatory path to someone that a fire extinguisher and first aid kit are required using the existing regulations. To me simply showing a regulation that is no longer current without a path to get there doesn't carry much weight.

For me, its not listed in the required equipment list of the TCDS, its not required equipment even though CAR4 might state it. However I wonder if it was not removed from the TCDS during one of its revisions. There is no requirement for me to maintain a car4 aircraft to superseded standards except as required by updates such as newer equipment installed or airworthiness modifications.