Fuselage tubing - what brand expoxy primer after blasting?

[Kim]

Hello,

I am with a group who has a 1941 BL-12 basket case. We have the fuselage all repaired (we think), and are ready to sand blast the fuselage. Problem is the local aviation paint supplier does not have Polyfiber white epoxy primer on hand (we were told it would be here last week....), does have green. Can we use an automotive epoxy primer instead, does it matter, what brand(s) are good?

Our plan (for this weekend if possible)

- blast fuselage (most was already stripped and then a temp spray can primer was applied)
- Wipe with alcohol (really well)
- Coat of WHITE epoxy primer
- Coat of GREEN epoxy primer
- Coat of WHITE epoxy primer

Was told that 1 qt kits for each coat will be enough.

Any concerns about compatibility with whatever fabric coating (undetermined) we will use .

I think one of the guys was going to pick up a cheap toploading Harbor Freight spray gun.

Any suggestions of an alternative epoxy primer to the Polyfiber? (that we can get locally).

I did do a search, but did not see any brand names

[Guest]

Re: Fuselage tubing - what brand expoxy primer after blasting?

Try Sherwin-Williams white epoxy, they make a mil spec one that is good. Will post part # later.

[Guest]

Re: Fuselage tubing - what brand expoxy primer after blasting?

first line is epoxy
second line is the hardener

[Kim]

Re: Fuselage tubing - what brand expoxy primer after blasting?

Thanks drude, I (we) will look into that primer.

Just so I am clear, we will use the same brand for all primer coats and materials/components.

Let's see if I can post some pics (we all like pics, right).

[Robert Lees]

Re: Fuselage tubing - what brand expoxy primer after blasting?

- Coat of WHITE epoxy primer
- Coat of GREEN epoxy primer
- Coat of WHITE epoxy primer

Was told that 1 qt kits for each coat will be enough.

Hello Kim and welcome!

Why are you doing 3 coats of epoxy primer? Which covering manual are you following? But you are doing the right thing by using two-pack epoxy primer.

And by the way, a quart kit will not be enough to spray a fuselage (the overspray is greater than what ends up on the tubing).

Do keep us posted.

Rob

[3Dreaming]

Re: Fuselage tubing - what brand expoxy primer after blasting?

I have used PPG DP primers before. DP 48 is white. Like Rob, I think 3 coats of primmer is overkill. I think a light tack coat followed by one good cover coat would be enough. Anything more is just extra weight. Spray anyplace you will have exposed tubing after covering, and then use a brush on the rest.

[t-crafter]

Re: Fuselage tubing - what brand expoxy primer after blasting?

Any 2 part commercial epoxy primer will work fine. After it cures, you can top coat with 2 part urethane in the color off your choice. If you have moderate temps to work in and you move fast. Use a foam brush. They don't last long so have a bunch on hand when you start. These aircraft had only zinc chromate and enamels when they where built and look how long they have last so todays coatings will last a lot longer than we have left to fly them !!
Good luck
Carlton

[Ray36048]

Re: Fuselage tubing - what brand expoxy primer after blasting?

The foam brush method works very well. No over spray to deal with and you use far less material. Buy a box of the blue disposable gloves at Harbor Freight, or the like. Use your hand and the foam brush in the weld clusters to make sure they are coated.

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: Fuselage tubing - what brand expoxy primer after blasting?

I used the cheap throw away HF airbrushes. Everybody laughed at first, painting a full size airplane with a "toy" airbrush, but the joke was on them. I set it to spray about a 1" fan and got almost NO overspray while painting the tubes. I ended up using about 1/3 the primer and epoxy paint I was told I would need.

First coat I used was a RED tinted primer (easy to see over the nearly white fresh blasted steel) followed by a coat of white epoxy primer, which was easy to see over the first red coat. I then used epoxy paint tinted to the color of the original Zinc paint used by the factory. I used Pettit Epoxy which is common (or was when I did it) for boat parts. The fuselage ended up having to sit in a barn for many years while I finished the 41 and not a single spot of rust has come through.

[NC36061]

Re: Fuselage tubing - what brand expoxy primer after blasting?

Hi Kim,

Congratulations on having a '41 Deluxe! These are fairly uncommon and desirable, especially if it retains all of the Deluxe features. Looks like your panel, yokes, wooden doors are correct. Do you have the cast nose bowl grills and stainless cowl trim pieces? Check your wings for 15 ribs for the 1200lb gw. Earlier airplanes under 1200 had 13 rib wings, I've seen them get mixed up before. Also, your tail feathers have been changed to "D" model tandem (and post-war BC-12D, hence the "D" in the model designation) two-hinge type. It would have originally had three-hinge feathers. The horizontal stabs and elevators are the same shape, but I think the attach holes are 90* different between the types, and trim tab is different. The big difference is the vertical fin and rudder is shorter with a wider chord on the pre-war three-hinge, and taller, narrower chord on the "D" two-hinge type. I also think the bracing wire fittings are different, and you can't mix two- and three- hinge parts due to the wire lengths being different. I have seen pre-war B airplanes with "D" tails and post-war BC-12Ds with pre-war tails. 98% of people, including A&P/AI will never know the difference, but its technically not correct. If you want a fly in your ointment, I'd suggest looking to trade your "D" tail for a three-hinge pre-war set before you start fabric, especially being you've got a Deluxe. I think the early tail is much nicer and more graceful than the "D", just my $.02. Good luck, more pics as you progress! And ask any other questions you come up with.

Dave

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: Fuselage tubing - what brand expoxy primer after blasting?

Yes, I agree with almost all of what Dave has said. My 45 Deluxe does have the wood doors, cast cowl trim and side SS trim as well as the 15 rib wings with the old “stick “T” ribs. They also had the MUCH BETTER welded aileron hinge and bellcrank fitttings (the cast ones are JUNK). My trim tab is also the 41 elevator tab that does not go all the way to the root end. From what I could find the 41 Deluxe (the correct spelling from Taylorcraft for the Deluxe by the way) planes were also some of the early planes they experimented with for other subtle changes. I have some really old photos somewhere showing both 2 and 3 hinge elevators. From what I could find out they had some early problems keeping the 3 hinges ones aligned and some would bind so you could find either 3 or 2 hinges on a 41 Deluxe (can’t find the pictures so that is my best memory). The real way to tell is the length of the tail wires. A 41 will always have the pre-war lengths no matter what the hinge numbers are (I can measure mine if you need the differences. I have a 40 with LOTS of 46 parts, an original 41 and an original 45). My 41 Deluxe is one with three hinges on both sides with the 41 fin and rudder. The pre-war planes also had more AREA to the rudder which slightly changes the handling. In a small rudder plane (a 46 or later) in a hard slip you can hold full rudder and you won’t quite use all of the aileron throw. In an early plane you run out of aileron throw first and can adjust with the rudder. I have uncovered pre and post war rudders (only my 41 is flying) and get you any dimensions you need). It would not be all that hard to MAKE pre-war tails from a post war but you will need a good hunk of steel to line bore the hinge fixture to make sure the hinges don’t bind. I also have side trim pieces and hope to make new ones from composite since they have been known to get blown off!
Another major feature of the 41 Deluxe is the control wheel and wheel pants. There were two different wheels available on the 41 Deluxe but the Banjo was the most common and looked the best. REALLY classy but hard to find now. Late in production they ran out of them and used the open tube wheel. I have both if you need to make a set (not NEARLY as easy as making pre war tails!). On the pants, I have them but don’t actually fly with them. The fittings were originally cast aluminum and cracked. When I bought my plane it had welded fittings that were UGLY and I got tired of getting all the grass and mud out of the pants. I have a set of aluminum and glass copies if anyone wants to make molds. I also designed steel fittings with glass overlays that look like the cast ones but won’t crack…..just never got around to making them. Like the cast aileron fittings, I don’t fly with cast flight or gear parts. Castings are for parts you don’t mind falling off your plane.
Just my opinions, ;-)
Hank

[Kim]

Re: Fuselage tubing - what brand expoxy primer after blasting?

Thanks for all the replies.

On the original question/topic. It sounds like any quality epoxy primer will work, and no one has mentioned any compatibility issues. We are a long ways from deciding on what to cover the plane with, though the Stewart system does come up on occasion.

To answer the question, why three coats. That is what our original aviation paint supplier suggested. Light, dark, and then light colored primer or, dark, light, dark to ensure complete coverage. We decided on a final color of white.

[Kim]

Re: Fuselage tubing - what brand expoxy primer after blasting?

Thanks to Dave and Hank on info on this particular model.

What you see in the pics is pretty much what we got. We have acquired (for free) a set of dissasembled wings, though no attempt has been made to id what year they are from.

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: Fuselage tubing - what brand expoxy primer after blasting?

Post a photo of the parts and we will be able to ID many of the parts and what year they are (OK, what series maybe, but actual YEAR will be harder).

[McRay7ac]

Re: Fuselage tubing - what brand expoxy primer after blasting?

I like soda blasting better than sand, soda gives a better finish - also I do a punch test on the bottom of tubing have found tube that is rusting out and weak places that need replaced - I also agree with Ray
and Hank on small airbrush and foam brush or 1in brush I have use both they do a good for me