Taylorcraft/Martin wire

[Ray36048]

Re: Taylorcraft/Martin wire

Sorry I missed that in my search. Does it apply to your Taylorcraft?

How does someone get approval via that STC if they can't get a copy with their aircraft data noted from the owner? Not saying it can't be done, just wondering how? As you note maybe someone should reactivate the STC.

I should also mention it's not that difficult to smooth rough metal with a file, scotchbrite pad, or drill motor and flapper wheel if rib lacing is desired.

Gary

At one time this STC was posted in the tech section. Fortunately, I down loaded a copy. You are correct, the owner is long gone. So, no one to mail a check to for a letter. I did have my mechanic send it to the FSDO, the only question I was asked if I could get a clearer copy. They did say it was a valid STC, but would not send me copies of the original papers because that would be the property of the owner. I have posted here several times, hoping someone with experience working with the FAA could take it over. Maybe there is some time at which these things become "public" property. This STC would be a welcome addition for Taylorcrafts. This would provide an alternate for the Martin Wires. Wires we can no longer get. I have seen more than one T-Craft in the field that have used screws. I have never asked the owners if they had the correct paper work. Someone can correct me, but when you file a 337 with an STC, you only need a copy of the STC, not the letter.

Re: Taylorcraft/Martin wire

Taylorcraft stitched the tail feathers fin and ailerons, all of which have potentially sharp edges that need to be avoided/addressed. Beyond size, there is really no difference between lacing a stamped rib wing and lacing a stamped rib aileron is there?

Hi Scott,

Really good observation!

Thanks, Dave.

[PA1195]

Re: Taylorcraft/Martin wire

I guess no one read my post of 5 days ago............
STC SA1-217 is for screws and pop rivets.

Sorry I missed that in my search. Does it apply to your Taylorcraft?

How does someone get approval via that STC if they can't get a copy with their aircraft data noted from the owner? Not saying it can't be done, just wondering how? As you note maybe someone should reactivate the STC.

I should also mention it's not that difficult to smooth rough metal with a file, scotchbrite pad, or drill motor and flapper wheel if rib lacing is desired.

Gary

[Ray36048]

Re: Taylorcraft/Martin wire

Maybe. I searched here (http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Gu...e?OpenFrameSet) first using the terms Taylorcraft, wing ribs, then the various Taylorcraft TCDS A-696, 699, 700, and IA9. There was no reference to an STC for either screws or Marston and similar pop rivets that I could find (might be buried in a fabric covering STC however). Not saying there's none, but the rivets appear to apply to Champs. Taping the rib cap's potentially sharp edges might delay chaffing when used with rib lacing.

Some general comments on fasteners: https://www.faa.gov/regulations_poli...a/ama_Ch03.pdf

Have done all four methods as a helper (clips, lacing, screws, and rivets) but no expert here.

Gary

I guess no one read my post of 5 days ago............
STC SA1-217 is for screws and pop rivets.

[Scott]

Re: Taylorcraft/Martin wire

Taylorcraft stitched the tail feathers fin and ailerons, all of which have potentially sharp edges that need to be avoided/addressed. Beyond size, there is really no difference between lacing a stamped rib wing and lacing a stamped rib aileron is there?

[Ragwing nut]

Re: Taylorcraft/Martin wire

There is nothing wrong with rib stitching a stamped rib. If you're not using anti chafe tape...and I'm not talking masking tape....then you shouldn't be covering in the first place. The only rib lacing I've found cut was usually cut by mice or a control cable. I've only been at this for a bit over 30 years, so maybe I'm missing a bunch. As far as a Fed not approving it, I'd call BS.... I've never seen nor heard of an actual case of that happening. Just remember, anything you do other than Taylorcraft wire...that means martin wire, screws, pop rivets, or whatever....is going to call for an STC or field approval. I've always thought the wire was a joke...it never stays perfectly tight and looks awful in my opinion.

I agree on the stitching. I stitched everyone I did, used a 337, and everyone one is still flying today, and the first one I did was around 1990. I think I only used the wire a couple times.

[N96337]

Re: Taylorcraft/Martin wire

There is nothing wrong with rib stitching a stamped rib. If you're not using anti chafe tape...and I'm not talking masking tape....then you shouldn't be covering in the first place. The only rib lacing I've found cut was usually cut by mice or a control cable. I've only been at this for a bit over 30 years, so maybe I'm missing a bunch. As far as a Fed not approving it, I'd call BS.... I've never seen nor heard of an actual case of that happening. Just remember, anything you do other than Taylorcraft wire...that means martin wire, screws, pop rivets, or whatever....is going to call for an STC or field approval. I've always thought the wire was a joke...it never stays perfectly tight and looks awful in my opinion.

[Ragwing nut]

Re: Taylorcraft/Martin wire

I have a friend that is a tool and die machinist and owes me a huge favor. I can ask him how much it would cost to build a forming tool. Would not be as fast as a CNC bender, but may also help keep the costs down.

[lfries]

Re: Taylorcraft/Martin wire

I believe The as spec is 302H

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: Taylorcraft/Martin wire

Do NOT use rib stitching on the stamped aluminum ribs!!!!! I have seen it done safely, but it requires either bending in the sharp edge of EVERY RIB so the sharp edge won't ever cut the rib stitching, or covering the edge so it can't cut the cords. Yes, I know that many have done it, but it DOES NOT comply with the original configuration and this is one of those times where if I was an FAA guy I would ground a plane with stamped ribs and rib stitching.

USE THE WIRES or get the STC to use one of the APPROVED methods. I have seen wings where some of the rib stitch cords were cut by the sharp edge of a rib. If enough are cut the fabric will balloon up and you will NOT have enough aileron to counter the roll. It hasn't killed anyone yet, but don't be the first.

The REAL answer is to get some new wire made. It should NOT be that hard or expensive. We might also want to post the LEGAL STCs for rivets and screws here.

Hank

Note that the pre-war built up ribs DO use rib stitching! The wires WILL NOT WORK on pre-war rib wings! For those with a mix of ribs (yes, I have seen one), good luck, your wing is going to look REALLY STRANGE!

[skip]

Re: Taylorcraft/Martin wire

Mark:

If one assumes a 15-rib wing (only 14 need wire) and the chord is 5 feet (ignoring the aileron cut-out & the short rib at the tip) then 5*14*4=280 feet.

Add a bit for FAF so say each Taylorcraft is a 300 feet roll.

Much better to allow the installer to cut the wire from the roll as required.

Material is certainly stainless, but to what spec I know not. 303?

HTH,
Rob

When I did my 1946 BC12-D wings a couple of years ago, I used NOS Taylorcraft wire (Thanks drude, I really appreciated you parting with some of your hoard!)

210 feet worked out just right.

[PA1195]

Re: Taylorcraft/Martin wire

I think you can also use, if I,m not mistaken, the fabric pop rivets like American Champion and Ag Cat use. I used these on my Acro Sport II on the tail and no problems for the last 15 years of acro flying. These would be a good choice for the Taylorcraft stamped ribs. They are also easily drilled if you have to remove them, and they install quick. Several years ago I removed fabric from wings of a 7 AC Champ that was rib stitched, and almost half of the stitching was chaffed thru, and some almost all the way thru. He was lucky it didn't unzip and loose his airfoil. This happened to a Pitts in PA several years ago due to improperly tied knots on the rib stitching, and ended up a fatality. I do think the rivets are a STC approved method to attach fabric to stamped Taylorcraft ribs. Just my two cents worth.

Maybe. I searched here (http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Gu...e?OpenFrameSet) first using the terms Taylorcraft, wing ribs, then the various Taylorcraft TCDS A-696, 699, 700, and IA9. There was no reference to an STC for either screws or Marston and similar pop rivets that I could find (might be buried in a fabric covering STC however). Not saying there's none, but the rivets appear to apply to Champs. Taping the rib cap's potentially sharp edges might delay chaffing when used with rib lacing.

Some general comments on fasteners: https://www.faa.gov/regulations_poli...a/ama_Ch03.pdf

Have done all four methods as a helper (clips, lacing, screws, and rivets) but no expert here.

Gary

[Mark Julicher]

Re: Taylorcraft/Martin wire

I will buy 4 wings worth.

[mike lutz]

Re: Taylorcraft/Martin wire

I think you can also use, if I,m not mistaken, the fabric pop rivets like American Champion and Ag Cat use. I used these on my Acro Sport II on the tail and no problems for the last 15 years of acro flying. These would be a good choice for the Taylorcraft stamped ribs. They are also easily drilled if you have to remove them, and they install quick. Several years ago I removed fabric from wings of a 7 AC Champ that was rib stitched, and almost half of the stitching was chaffed thru, and some almost all the way thru. He was lucky it didn't unzip and loose his airfoil. This happened to a Pitts in PA several years ago due to improperly tied knots on the rib stitching, and ended up a fatality. I do think the rivets are a STC approved method to attach fabric to stamped Taylorcraft ribs. Just my two cents worth.

[mikeg]

Re: Taylorcraft/Martin wire

FYI guys - there is an STC to use screws and washers on the T-Craft with stamped aluminum ribs. Much like a 7AC or 11AC. I did a T with it a number of years ago. Check your STC listings.
Merry Christmas,
Mike