Taylorcraft/Martin wire

[lfries]

Re: Taylorcraft/Martin wire

Hope this comes thru.

[lfries]

Re: Taylorcraft/Martin wire

Rob, I didn't realize it was that long ago.

Re: Taylorcraft/Martin wire

Oh!

I am wrong. I am wrong. I am, wrong.

The rust that I saw is not from the wire itself but apparently from a wire that is wrapped around the roll to hold it together. The wrap wire has been moved thru handling and left it's rust deposits behind giving the appearance that the wing wire rusted. My bad.

Also Chuck I realize that I may have much larger rolls than you. When I went to look for the rust I see it is big and I also have a smaller roll perhaps like yours. What is the diameter of the roll? The big ones are 18".

I noticed that the wire is magnetic.

Dave

Re: Taylorcraft/Martin wire

Chuck,

You have enough wire there for 5 planes I bet. I recall the rolls were close to 1000' and 200' will do a plane.

Dave

[cvavon]

Re: Taylorcraft/Martin wire

THE STORY THAT i WAS TOLD WHEN I GOT THE ROLL GIVEN TO ME WAS THE MAN BOUGHT A LARGE AMOUNT OF TAYLORCRAFT PARTS AT THE AUCTION IN 1947 OR THERE ABOUT.HE GAVE IT TO ME IN 2011 AT THE LLT FLY-IN AT DAYTON MORAINE OHIO.AND HE HAD A COUPLE ROLLS AND GAVE ME ONE.IT IS STILL IN THE PACKAGE FROM THE FACTORY HE SAID NO TAGS OR MARKINGS JUST WRAPPED IN BROWN PAPER.HE SAID THERE IS ENOUGH TO DO A PLANE IN THE ROLL.

[Robert Lees]

Re: Taylorcraft/Martin wire

A quick refer back to Lloyd's post above, Mark. If he has a tag, that would be useful (Lloyd & I are old friends; we flew together in California in 1999)

[Mark Bowden]

Re: Taylorcraft/Martin wire

Another thing that would be really, really good to do for they guys that have any Taylorcraft wire stock.

If there is a Taylorcraft part number tag or any kind of label that identifies it as Taylorcraft is to take a photo of the shape of the retention feature on a blank sheet of paper next to a 6 inch scale and the tag attached to the wire and post on the website for historical documentation.

If there is no original Taylorcraft drawing left or a tag on the NOS parts then the only thing left to say what a Taylorcraft design is, would be an aircraft restoration with photo documentation during disassembly as the wires are removed.

Same for the restoration projects underway or completed in recent years if you have photo documentation of what was removed and reused, keep and post. Rob, you have some good ones on your website but the more the better for reference.

[lfries]

Re: Taylorcraft/Martin wire

A friend just got back from Texas. He was supervising the loading of a aviation shop and came upon some Taylorcraft parts. He took a picture of a wire tag . Give me your email address and I will send a picture to you. I can't attach a picture from my iPad. He gave me a parking brake cable set up and the a tailwheel. Also several blue print type drawings.

[Mark Bowden]

Re: Taylorcraft/Martin wire

This is why it is good to find a Taylorcraft reference if possible, it may require a visit to Forrest's archives to see if there is a drawing with a call out. It very likely could have been music wire or from the plain wire steel family that music wire is part of. Stainless steel didn't see common, volume production until well after the war.

Stainless can easily rust. Stainless can exhibit its superior corrosion properties only when continually exposed to oxygen. Cover it up with something that doesn't let oxygen replenish the passive film like dope, fabric systems and paint and corrosion can happen. Still better than plain steels in nearly all severe environments.


However without a reference...

The cert for Martin clips on Aircraft Spruce is 302H alloy, PMA approved and in use on a lot of fabric applications, including ours. 302 has material properties like the music wire/plain steel wire. Coupled with the fact Martin Clip wire is 302H the case can be made it is ok to use as it is indeed already in use. And is the only known material reference in existence.

An owner produced shape (Taylorcraft) is equivalent or better to Martin wire as it is same Martin material but actually conforms to the Type designed shape.

The original wire could also have been 200 series stainless as it was an early alloy using different elements for corrosion resistance due to limited availability of nickel during the war. It was replaced by 302 in volume after the war and the current stainless alloy family is derived from 302's chemistry. 200 series has less corrosion resistance than the higher 3XX alloys.

[Robert Lees]

Re: Taylorcraft/Martin wire

Perhaps a more accurate description would be "corrosion resistant steel".

When I recovered my Taylorcraft, I bought a shank from Forrest Barber, and although NOS, there was no "rust" on it. My old wire I still have, and it's mostly serviceable.

Re: Taylorcraft/Martin wire

Taylorcraft wire is not stainless steel. It rusts.

[Mark Bowden]

Re: Taylorcraft/Martin wire

Hi Lloyd, where did you see the 302H alloy callout? I know the Martin Wire Clip is defined as 302. It would be good if we could find any kind of Taylorcraft reference.

Thanks

[Mark Bowden]

Re: Taylorcraft/Martin wire

Hi, Chuck graciously sent me a section of wire and I have a drawing completed based on measurements from the actual part, both will be used to talk to vendors. However the feature which goes around the rib thickness itself is quite tight.

Would someone with an exposed rib please measure the wing rib material thickness and post back?

Please also someone let me know the fabric thickness and the thickness of the reinforcing tape.

For those that have used the Taylorcraft wire how tight of a fit was the notch that went around the rib thickness and the fabric?

This is a key feature and I want to get it correct.
Thanks

[PA1195]

Re: Taylorcraft/Martin wire

I'll offer this but maybe someone with experience in these matters can comment:

The FAA says this...to contact the issuing office in the case where the STC originator is gone disappeared: http://www.faa.gov/aircraft/air_cert...c/stc_install/

Issuing Office: New York Aircraft Certification Office (ANE-170), Tel: (516) 228-7300

Tim has two 337's in the Taylorcraft 337 copy list...one for rivets and one for lacing.

Gary

[Ray36048]

Re: Taylorcraft/Martin wire

Sorry I missed that in my search. Does it apply to your Taylorcraft?

How does someone get approval via that STC if they can't get a copy with their aircraft data noted from the owner? Not saying it can't be done, just wondering how? As you note maybe someone should reactivate the STC.

I should also mention it's not that difficult to smooth rough metal with a file, scotchbrite pad, or drill motor and flapper wheel if rib lacing is desired.

Gary

At one time this STC was posted in the tech section. Fortunately, I down loaded a copy. You are correct, the owner is long gone. So, no one to mail a check to for a letter. I did have my mechanic send it to the FSDO, the only question I was asked if I could get a clearer copy. They did say it was a valid STC, but would not send me copies of the original papers because that would be the property of the owner. I have posted here several times, hoping someone with experience working with the FAA could take it over. Maybe there is some time at which these things become "public" property. This STC would be a welcome addition for Taylorcrafts. This would provide an alternate for the Martin Wires. Wires we can no longer get. I have seen more than one T-Craft in the field that have used screws. I have never asked the owners if they had the correct paper work. Someone can correct me, but when you file a 337 with an STC, you only need a copy of the STC, not the letter.