Aircraft Tech Support... Please Read!!

[crispy critter]

I started this thread over on the J3 Cub forum. You can follow the link and read the entire thing if ya want. I guess I've really stirred up a hornets nest with this one.

I'm not trying to be a bad guy or run anyone in the dirt, I just want folks to be aware of what happened to me. I've delt with these folks for years with no problems, greatest people and service in the world until early this week and this is what happened. You can defend them, agree with me, or niether, it will not cause me to look at anyone any differently because until I experienced it myself, I would have waded thru hell for these folks any day of the week! It just came as a real shock to me and here's the story...
P.S. Follow this link if ya want to read the stuff from the Cub forum..http://www.j3-cub.com/forum/f79/airc...se-read-23522/

Has anyone ever had any issues dealing with Jim or Dondi Miller who operate aircraft technical support, ceconite and poly fiber dealer? I have done business with them off and on for more then 10 years and always thought they were the greatest folks in the world until today and I'm not sure what there problem is.


I had originally ordered a set of stab envelopes from ACS simply because I had to order about $500 worth of other stuff from them and since they said they had envelopes in stock I just had them include it in my order, then I called Jim miller and ordered all the dopes from him. I opened my envelopes from ACS this morning to start covering the stabs and found I was one short.

So I called ACS and they had simply goofed up but said they didn't have anymore in stock and said it would be 3-5 weeks before they could get any out to me. So with that info I called Jim and told him the story and at first he said they would get me one right out and would be about a week or less. I then called ACS back and told them to cancel the second one and just credit the cost back to my account. An hour or so later I received a call from Jim miller and he definatly seemed different, not rude or upset, but direct and very short, stating that since I ordered from ACS he thought I should stay with them and he was not going to make me an envelope. I tried to get an explanation from him but all he would say was since I ordered originally from ACS he would not sell me an envelope.

By this time I'm very confused and my feelings are hurt and I ask him if he even wanted to continue doing business with me at all, and he said that he did not care and that was up to me but not with this deal and he hung up on me! Now they will not answer my calls or return my messages. The last two times I tried to call them it wouldn't even go to their answering machine, it's like they would pickup and hang up. In the past I have always had excellent service from them and they have always been very helpful but this has really hurt me.

I know I'm not one of there biggest customers but I have referred nearly 100 people to them and if this is how they are going to be simply because I bought $75 dollars worth of stuff from ACS rather then buying from them then I don't think they deserve anyone's business. I feel Jim owes me an apoligy or an explanation at the very least. I really never in my wildest dreams expected this kind of service from them. Has anyone else ever had poor service from them in the past or was I just the one unlucky guy who had to suffer the results of Jim having a very bad day?

[crispy critter]

Re: Aircraft Tech Support... Please Read!!

After about 3-4 days worth of this on the Cub site I received this letter from them...You must understand that all I wanted was an explanation on why Jim(politely) told me he would not deal with me and hung up on me...not in those exact words but if you want the real feel for things you can read it all on the Cub site....I'm not even going to try typing all that again. I guess they had a bunch of folks call them about the stink I was causing(nice they can talk to them but not me) and then I received this letter yesterday. Kinda like a polite way of saying go #### yourself is what I got out of it but maybe I'm just looking at it thru sore eyes. However I would've dropped this entire matter if they would've simply called me with an explanation of why Jim treated me the way he did and then I would've been perfectly fine with him telling me to go #### myself!
Like I said, I'm not here to run anyone down. I just want folks to know what happened to me...these were the last people on the planet that I ever expected this type of treatment from.

[N96337]

Re: Aircraft Tech Support... Please Read!!

Wow is about all I can say about that one! I guess customer service is gone out the window?
John

[Jim Herpst]

Re: Aircraft Tech Support... Please Read!!

Well perhaps they do the envelope work for ACS ? That would be a reason for them to get a bit concerned about you cancelling your order there ? Hmm go figure. Always heard good things about Jim And Dondi from Bruce Bixler Days till now.... On the other hand how did ACS simply "goof up" and short you when its obvious they did not have it to begin with.... my opinion.

[waltermrich]

Re: Aircraft Tech Support... Please Read!!

Thanks for sharing that , that is not the right way to deal with your customers, I will be cautious when buying fabirics in the future.

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: Aircraft Tech Support... Please Read!!

I have worked with Jim and Dondi several times and they have ALWAYS been absolutely professional and great to work with. They are both very reasonable people and this really sounds like a misunderstanding that has gotten totally out of control. I would hate to have EITHER of you (customer or supplier) have your reputation damaged by a mistake.
Knowing the people from both sides, this just doesn't make sense.
Hank

[Jim Herpst]

Re: Aircraft Tech Support... Please Read!!

I still say look at my earlier post number 4. It seems very likely since he said deal with ACS "on this deal" they either do their work OR by picking and choosing he got a bit up set....are the prices the same for the Fabric ? I agree with Hank > Lets not damage a reputation for any party. Everyone gets along to well for that !! (oh boy I still have a scar on my elbo when I tried to jump in and break up a fight when I was 10. (got rolled in a hay field over the only broken bottle on 100 plus or so acres) Think I would learn !!!!

[crispy critter]

Re: Aircraft Tech Support... Please Read!!

Hank,

I totally agree with you to some point. Up until the incident I would have defended Jim and Dondi to the bitter end. I have delt with them for more then 10 years and I can honestly say that they have been the most helpful folks ive ever known in the fabric covering world.

Also when I ordered materials I rarely ever had to wait more then a day or so for them. Always very nice and very helpful. That is why I find this soooo hard to accept. I have always treated them with the same respect, always supported them and recommended them to probably 100 people or more over the years and this is why it makes this soo confusing and painful. To say my feelings are hurt is a severe understatement.

As for the deal with ACS and why I didn't originally order my envelopes from Jim(ATS).... I was reassembling a C170B and needed all new AN hardware for the reassembly, at that time if I could've ordered that stuff from ATS I would've but ATS doesn't sell AN hardware.

Anyway, after placing my order for the hardware with ACS the lady asked if there was anything else I needed and I made a wise crack saying, not unless you have any horizonal stab envelopes in stock for a J3 cub, after a moment she said I show that we do have some in stock already made. So knowing I would probably have to wait a couple of extra days for ATS to make them i just told her to add 2 of them to my order. I then hung up the phone and called ATS to order all the other supplies for the cub repairs such as a qt of poly tak, a gallon of poly brush, a gallon of poly spray, and gallon of poly tone, 3 or 4 gallons of thinner, and a yard of fabric for a patch on the fuselage. Everything came as expected within a day or so except for the poly tone(color) which arrived a couple days later.

A couple weeks later when I started to cover my stabs I opened my fabric envelopes to find I was one short. I then called ACS and they admitted to a mistake on their end,apologized and then proceeded to tell me they didn't have anymore in stock and would have to make one which would take a few weeks because they were behind in that department. I told her to wait on that order until I could call and see if I could get one quicker somewhere else. Of course Jim was the first person I called. I explained to him what happened and asked if he could help me out. Like always he was friendly and helpful. He went on to tell me they would have to make one but would have it out to me within a week which is pretty much what I had expected before I called.

Happy as always after talking with Jim I called ACS back and told them to just refund the missing envelope back to my account, the lady again apologized for the mistake and did what she said she would. An hour or so later I received a call back from Jim at ATS and that's where everything started. What happened with ACS causing them to forget an envelope in the original shipment....I can't answer that one but they did make it right and apologized for thier mistake. Why did Jim call me back and treat me the way he did... I certinly can't answer that one either, but I made several efforts to call them back after Jim hung up on me in an attempt to get an explanation and that's all I wanted. An apology would have been great but I would have settled for any explanation whether it be that Jim was in a bad mood or he was simply pissed at me for ordering envelopes from ACS(which shouldn't be any of his business but at least it would be an understanding reason) and I would have left it at that.

Up until receiving the letter from them yesterday, all I wanted was an explanation. I was hoping that my little post on the cub forum would maybe get someone's attention prompting a call from Jim with an explanation because i know a lot folks from that forum deal with them. I never dreamed I would actually get that type of response from other folks having similar experineces, it simply never crossed my mind. However as I was saying, after receiving the letter it has made things very clear to me how they truly feel about thier customers(me anyway)and they can have all the business they want as long as its not mine! I no longer need or wish for an explanation and I thank them for the list of all thier competitors they included with the letter.

I'm not trying to tell everyone not to buy from them because I've have excellent service from them for many years, which makes this soo much harder for me to understand. I just want people to know what happened to me(and many others as i have so recently discovered)and prepare yourself for the possibility that it could happen to you someday and don't be too surprised if it does.

And if your situation is anything like mine or a few other folks I have talked to offline who contacted me privately....there will be absolutly no reason for it, no warning for it,and it will make absolutly no sense. Good luck and I hope you never have to feel the same disappointment from them that I have.

[Robert Lees]

Re: Aircraft Tech Support... Please Read!!

Kevin, you'll see I've edited your text purely to add some paragraph spacing. Without, it's so difficult to read; hope this is OK.

[crispy critter]

Re: Aircraft Tech Support... Please Read!!

Thanks Rob, sorry for the poor grammar everyone one but English/grammar have always been my weakest subjects. I did go back and try to correct some of mis-spellings as well. I think it reads a little better now. Thanks again for the edit Rob, hope things are going good for you across the east pond.

[crispy critter]

Re: Aircraft Tech Support... Please Read!!

Well perhaps they do the envelope work for ACS ? That would be a reason for them to get a bit concerned about you cancelling your order there ? Hmm go figure. Always heard good things about Jim And Dondi from Bruce Bixler Days till now.... On the other hand how did ACS simply "goof up" and short you when its obvious they did not have it to begin with.... my opinion.

Jim,
ACS has one person that does all of thier sewing....fabric envelopes, headliners, etc. anything they need sewn is done by this one person and I was told by ACS they have no connection with ATS.

[Guest]

Re: Aircraft Tech Support... Please Read!!

Hi Kevin,

I don't pretend to know who is right or wrong here.

I suspect that all of us have had dissappointing encounters with various vendors from time to time.

I will tell you this (even though you didn't ask ) ; It is best to handle disputes like this on a "one to one" basis and privately not in public on a forum. Kevin I also suggest that you delete all your posts about this to any forum that you have put them and give it time. It may heal over. Nothing good will come of them for you or the folks that gave you troubles.

That's what I think, hope it helps.

Dave

[crispy critter]

Re: Aircraft Tech Support... Please Read!!

Thank you for the comment Dave and I respect your opinion and understand your right to disagree with me in this matter, and most of the time I would agree with you.
As I mentioned in an earlier post, my original intention was in the hopes that it would get back to ATS and prompt Jim to at least give me an explanation but the letter pretty much speaks for itself. I am not telling people not to do business with ATS and I'm not trying to make them out to be terrible people. I'm simply stating my experience with them and expressing my extreme hurt and disappointment about how they treated me.

It is perfectly fine for people to post comments and praise for any company when they have a good experience with them and most companies will publish stuff like that, if i was on here talking about wonderful customer service is for a company it would certinly not be looked at as a bad thing. But what about the other side of things. Why is it wrong to comment on the negitve experiences we sometimes have, especially from someone that most of us would never dream of giving us a bad experience.

If the majority of y'all would like to see this post deleted please say so and I will do so. You do not have to voice your opinion publicly(or your very welcome and to post them publicly, it will not offend me and shouldn't offend anyone else in my opinion), or you can message me direct or one of the mediators. I will not be upset or insulted. Please understand I'm not trying to hurt anyone or offend anyone. I just feel that I have been done very wrong for absolutly no reason and I want people to know about it. Thank you and please don't take this personally.

I still encourage folks to continue your business with with ATS because as I have stated before, I've never had faster service,better prices, or better knowledge from anyone else in the fabric covering business and I am certinly going to miss that, but I can't do business wth someone who feels they can treat me the way they did. Just be aware that what happened to me could possibly happen to any of us at anytime. Had i been treated that way by a customer service person with ACS that person could have been wrote up or maybe even fired and that's why you won't see that kind of treatment from them(or very rare if you do). And as said before, Jim Miller was not mean to me when he called me back but he was very direct, very cold offering no explanation at all and made it clear that he did not care whether they had my business or not. That is his right, just as it is my right to publish my experience and how hurtful and confused it made me feel. Once again, very sorry if my comments offend anyone and I will delete this thread if that's what the group wants me to do. Thank you for listening....or reading I guess,lol.

[senior]

Re: Aircraft Tech Support... Please Read!!

Kevin: I see no reason to delete this thread.
I do find it dismaying that any vendor would try to turn away business or at least give a loyal customer an explanation. Obvious someone has irked him but does he not realize it may not be a customers fault! I get the impression someone from the other supply has said something that may not even be true!
I really don't like the idea of simply shutting you out by not answering the phone when all your trying to do is correct something, that's simply a poor attitude
We cover about 3 planes a yr, I won't say where we get our material but geeze!

[Guest]

Re: Aircraft Tech Support... Please Read!!

The thread does not offend me.