Pre-war welded aileron hinge fittings

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: Pre-war welded aileron hinge fittings

That was why we wanted to amortize the cost across a number of fittings. The more fittings, the lower the cost each. I think we are there (but don't know for sure yet) on the hinges. I'm afraid we will have a sudden requirement for the crank fittings if one is found cracked and the FAA drops a mandatory inspection on us. I am sure there have been cracked ones, but they were probably quietly replaced and no mandatory inspection was dropped.

Hank

Personally I would not have a cast one on my plane. I have WAY too many corroded and cracked hinges in the pile. I HAVE enough welded ones for my three planes already.

[Ragwing nut]

Re: Pre-war welded aileron hinge fittings

Why not CNC aluminum ones? I can get that done fairly reasonable. Then just reuse your steel ends

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: Pre-war welded aileron hinge fittings

That (CNC Aluminum) would get you a MUCH better hinges, unfortunately you are supposed to make it to a sample or specification from the manufacturer. The FAA seems to look askance at anyone who actually makes a BETTER part than original.

Hank

Go figure?

[Ragwing nut]

Re: Pre-war welded aileron hinge fittings

That (CNC Aluminum) would get you a MUCH better hinges, unfortunately you are supposed to make it to a sample or specification from the manufacturer. The FAA seems to look askance at anyone who actually makes a BETTER part than original.

Hank

Go figure?

Who said I was claiming better? lol. I am claiming direct replacement, form, fit , and function. Probably get it done under 21.303. I can get pricing when i get back from Oshkosh. I can almost bet i can get them made cheaper than the steel ones, especially the center bracket and bellcrank.

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: Pre-war welded aileron hinge fittings

I don't think the claim of "better" is the problem, the change of manufacture method and material is. Will they allow a CNC machined part to replace a cast one? I need to look at some originals (I have some) but I thought someone said they were Magnesium castings from Taylorcraft not aluminum. If they are aluminum you should be more than half way there since you are NOT changing the material, just how it is formed. If the FISDO will allow substitution of CNC for cast (only an idiot wouldn't) you are in on everything except meeting the "Owner Produced Part" requirement. We would need the FAA to tell us exactly what the owner has to do for it to qualify and how much you can CNC manufacture for the owner (unless you want to try for a PMA on the part).

Like I said, I think I have a usable crank support fitting to use as an example that is not cracked, but I need to look at it closely. I just don't trust cast parts. They are a mass of micro cracks in close formation anyway.

It is more of a "legal" problem than anything else. The parts need to be legal parts from a manufacturer for sale or owner produced, in which case the owner has to show they did enough to satisfy the FAA.

Hank

[astjp2]

Re: Pre-war welded aileron hinge fittings

21.303 is gone from the regs as of 2 years ago

[Guest]

Re: Pre-war welded aileron hinge fittings

21.9 Replacement and modification articles.

(a) If a person knows, or should know, that a replacement or modification article is reasonably likely to be installed on a type-certificated product, the person may not produce that article unless it is;

(1) Produced under a type certificate;

(2) Produced under an FAA production approval;

(3) A standard part (such as a nut or bolt) manufactured in compliance with a government or established industry specification;

(4) A commercial part as defined in 21.1 of this part;

(5) Produced by an owner or operator for maintaining or altering that owner or operator's product; or

(6) Fabricated by an appropriately rated certificate holder with a quality system, and consumed in the repair or alteration of a product or article in accordance with part 43 of this chapter.

(b) Except as provided in paragraphs (a)(1) through (a)(2) of this section, a person who produces a replacement or modification article for sale may not represent that part as suitable for installation on a type-certificated product.

(c) Except as provided in paragraphs (a)(1) through (a)(2) of this section, a person may not sell or represent an article as suitable for installation on an aircraft type-certificated under 21.25(a)(2) or 21.27 unless that article

(1) Was declared surplus by the U.S. Armed Forces, and

(2) Was intended for use on that aircraft model by the U.S. Armed Forces.

[Doc. No. FAA-2006-25877, Amdt. 21-92, 74 FR 53385, Oct. 16, 2009; Amdt. 21-92A, 75 FR 9095, Mar. 1, 2010]

[astjp2]

Re: Pre-war welded aileron hinge fittings

So would a valve manufactured IAW WWV35C meet the new requirement?

[Ragwing nut]

Re: Pre-war welded aileron hinge fittings

21.9 Replacement and modification articles.

(a) If a person knows, or should know, that a replacement or modification article is reasonably likely to be installed on a type-certificated product, the person may not produce that article unless it is;

(1) Produced under a type certificate;

(2) Produced under an FAA production approval;

(3) A standard part (such as a nut or bolt) manufactured in compliance with a government or established industry specification;

(4) A commercial part as defined in 21.1 of this part;

(5) Produced by an owner or operator for maintaining or altering that owner or operator's product; or

(6) Fabricated by an appropriately rated certificate holder with a quality system, and consumed in the repair or alteration of a product or article in accordance with part 43 of this chapter.

(b) Except as provided in paragraphs (a)(1) through (a)(2) of this section, a person who produces a replacement or modification article for sale may not represent that part as suitable for installation on a type-certificated product.

(c) Except as provided in paragraphs (a)(1) through (a)(2) of this section, a person may not sell or represent an article as suitable for installation on an aircraft type-certificated under 21.25(a)(2) or 21.27 unless that article

(1) Was declared surplus by the U.S. Armed Forces, and

(2) Was intended for use on that aircraft model by the U.S. Armed Forces.

[Doc. No. FAA-2006-25877, Amdt. 21-92, 74 FR 53385, Oct. 16, 2009; Amdt. 21-92A, 75 FR 9095, Mar. 1, 2010]

Well they are produced under tc or PMA, so no issue with owner produced. To get around the resell reg, you will need to have everyone submit a form to the part builder to show for individual consumption.

[Guest]

Re: Pre-war welded aileron hinge fittings

Well they are produced under tc or PMA, so no issue with owner produced. To get around the resell reg, you will need to have everyone submit a form to the part builder to show for individual consumption.

I don't beleive that Hank's are produced under tc or PMA.

Where did you come up with that info?

Dave

[Guest]

Re: Pre-war welded aileron hinge fittings

So would a valve manufactured IAW WWV35C meet the new requirement?

21.9 (5) Produced by an owner or operator for maintaining or altering that owner or operator's product;

Doesn't that cover it?

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: Pre-war welded aileron hinge fittings

The ones we will be doing will require the BUYER to do a part of the work (design, Quality check of part or manufacture) so it will become an "Owner Produced Part". It isn't that hard to do enough to get the FAA to approve. Usually the guys here are happy if you do a sketch of the part with a material and assembly direction or a quality inspection that insures the right materials and process are used and it matches the drawing. Only one person so far has wanted to do their own welding.

Hank

[Edwin Otha]

Re: Pre-war welded aileron hinge fittings

You could always build them as replacement parts for the airplanes used in the CPTP in WW II. Looks like that would be covered by 21.9 (6.c.2).
EO

[3Dreaming]

Re: Pre-war welded aileron hinge fittings

You could always build them as replacement parts for the airplanes used in the CPTP in WW II. Looks like that would be covered by 21.9 (6.c.2).
EO

I think you might want to read what it says a little closer, starting at 21.9 (C), then 1 and 2.

[Ragwing nut]

Re: Pre-war welded aileron hinge fittings

I don't beleive that Hank's are produced under tc or PMA.

Where did you come up with that info?

Dave

I meant not produced, missed a word in there sorry.