Propeller log book a requirement??

[N74DV]

Local FSDO office says we need a propeller log book. I did not know this is required on a fixed pitch prop. Do we really need one??

[Ragwing nut]

Re: Propeller log book a requirement??

tell fsdo to show the far where it is required.

[N74DV]

Re: Propeller log book a requirement??

So there is no FAR for this?

[Guest]

Re: Propeller log book a requirement??

§ 91.417 Maintenance records.
top
(a) Except for work performed in accordance with §§91.411 and 91.413, each registered owner or operator shall keep the following records for the periods specified in paragraph (b) of this section:

(1) Records of the maintenance, preventive maintenance, and alteration and records of the 100-hour, annual, progressive, and other required or approved inspections, as appropriate, for each aircraft (including the airframe) and each engine, propeller, rotor, and appliance of an aircraft. The records must include—

(i) A description (or reference to data acceptable to the Administrator) of the work performed; and

(ii) The date of completion of the work performed; and

(iii) The signature, and certificate number of the person approving the aircraft for return to service.

(2) Records containing the following information:

(i) The total time in service of the airframe, each engine, each propeller, and each rotor.

(ii) The current status of life-limited parts of each airframe, engine, propeller, rotor, and appliance.
(iii) The time since last overhaul of all items installed on the aircraft which are required to be overhauled on a specified time basis.

(iv) The current inspection status of the aircraft, including the time since the last inspection required by the inspection program under which the aircraft and its appliances are maintained.

(v) The current status of applicable airworthiness directives (AD) and safety directives including, for each, the method of compliance, the AD or safety directive number and revision date. If the AD or safety directive involves recurring action, the time and date when the next action is required.

(vi) Copies of the forms prescribed by §43.9(d) of this chapter for each major alteration to the airframe and currently installed engines, rotors, propellers, and appliances.

(b) The owner or operator shall retain the following records for the periods prescribed:

(1) The records specified in paragraph (a)(1) of this section shall be retained until the work is repeated or superseded by other work or for 1 year after the work is performed.

(2) The records specified in paragraph (a)(2) of this section shall be retained and transferred with the aircraft at the time the aircraft is sold.

(3) A list of defects furnished to a registered owner or operator under §43.11 of this chapter shall be retained until the defects are repaired and the aircraft is approved for return to service.

(c) The owner or operator shall make all maintenance records required to be kept by this section available for inspection by the Administrator or any authorized representative of the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB). In addition, the owner or operator shall present Form 337 described in paragraph (d) of this section for inspection upon request of any law enforcement officer.

(d) When a fuel tank is installed within the passenger compartment or a baggage compartment pursuant to part 43 of this chapter, a copy of FAA Form 337 shall be kept on board the modified aircraft by the owner or operator.

(Approved by the Office of Management and Budget under control number 2120–0005)
[Docket No. 18334, 54 FR 34311, Aug. 18, 1989, as amended by Amdt. 91–311, 75 FR 5223, Feb. 1, 2010; Amdt. 91–323, 76 FR 39260, July 6, 2011]





§ 91.419 Transfer of maintenance records.
top
Any owner or operator who sells a U.S.-registered aircraft shall transfer to the purchaser, at the time of sale, the following records of that aircraft, in plain language form or in coded form at the election of the purchaser, if the coded form provides for the preservation and retrieval of information in a manner acceptable to the Administrator:

(a) The records specified in §91.417(a)(2).(b) The records specified in §91.417(a)(1) which are not included in the records covered by paragraph (a) of this section, except that the purchaser may permit the seller to keep physical custody of such records. However, custody of records by the seller does not relieve the purchaser of the responsibility under §91.417(c) to make the records available for inspection by the Administrator or any authorized representative of the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB).

[Guest]

Re: Propeller log book a requirement??

please notice that the words log book are never used, merely records

[M Towsley]

Re: Propeller log book a requirement??

DJ,

An old and wise A&P/IA that used to sign off my annuals advised the propeller inspection can be included in the regular aircraft logs. Can't remember if it was under airframe or engine but that was how he did it.

[3Dreaming]

Re: Propeller log book a requirement??

Like stated you are required to keep records for the prop. The FSDO thinking is if you sell the prop and the records are in the engine log book they can not go with the prop. That is why they like a to see a log book just for the prop.

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: Propeller log book a requirement??

All you should need is for the A&P/IA to look at the old aircraft/engine log for the data and enter that in the new aircraft/engine log. Seems like I saw that in my aircraft log. Prop removed from aircraft N # XXXX with YYY hours on prop and installed on Taylorcraft N-ZZZZZZ at ????? hours total time on airframe.
I am pretty sure both my props are in the airframe log, which seemed a little funny to me since I probably would have put it in the engine log. I really don't know that it matters as long as it is recorded.
Hank

[rammon3]

Re: Propeller log book a requirement??

If I'm not mistaken, the prop is "officially" an airframe member according to the FAA.

[Garry Crookham]

Re: Propeller log book a requirement??

FAA Advisory Circular 43-9C covers maintenance records. Paragraph 5c states that separate log books are not required. However I would urge everyone to keep separate log books, it saves your A&P, and IA lots of time during inspections (meaning it saves you money!) If you don't have a prop log, all prop entries go in the airframe log.

Garry

[NY86]

Re: Propeller log book a requirement??

The records are the "log". A "log book" is just a convenient place to put the records...

[Guest]

Re: Propeller log book a requirement??

sure I agree with NY86

log books are not the exclusive form of record keeping

log books are not the only form of records they are one form records, other methods can be used

certainly logs are the most convenient and recognized

for example in DJ's case he may have a record in the form of an invoice or sevice order that records said prop installation as a new prop and it includes that a/c tach time etc so that may suffice as a record for the prop

whether he does or not is not my point but that as an owner one should keep all the forms of records for your stuff it may be handy for you or even necessary and don't think that log books are an exclusive method of record keeping.

[magman]

Re: Propeller log book a requirement??

" A LOGBOOK is a collection of lies stapled together"?

The term "propeller" has been deleted & replaced by "Fan".

It is used to keep the pilot cool.

When it stops turning he/she starts sweating.


Seriously :

ALL records can be kept in any permanent format (US) until superceded.

My belief is that since the owner is responsible for maintaining the records they should

make a copy of ALL significant entries. ie last MOH, AD's,Annual, W & B etc.

Yes I know toner is expensive BUT.

[N74DV]

Re: Propeller log book a requirement??

in DJ's case he may have a record in the form of an invoice or sevice order that records said prop installation as a new prop and it includes that a/c tach time etc so that may suffice as a record for the prop

That's exactly the scenario we had.

We were required to go to the FSDO and submit our logbooks. Long story, but basically an IA had been claiming to do annuals on the aircraft. He's in Illinois, the airplane is in Arizona. I've never heard of the guy. FAA was investigating and needed to see our logs. Anyway.. while they were inspecting the logs at our FSDO one of the officials there made a stern remark and asked "where's the prop log book?". My dad explained we don't have one and didn't know it was required. FSDO guy said "You are required to have one". They did some digging and found a reciept from back in the 70's where the McCauley Klip-Tip prop was added and the FSDO guy said that'll do, but it needs to be noted in a "propeller log".

Frankly, I'm tired of government officials not knowing the true answers to common issues. I've been trying to get a straight answer from the BATFE the past few weeks regarding some Class III firearms I own from the three different officials I have talked to I get three different answers. And in that case if I were to do what two of them had said and they were inaccurate I could be looking at 30 months in federal prison. Typical government $hit.

[magman]

Re: Propeller log book a requirement??

I've always found it best to TELL "them" & let "Them" prove you wrong.

Asking leaves the door wide open.