Copper Fuel Lines

[Ragwing nut]

Re: Copper Fuel Lines

THAT is correct , some ships have gone to aluminum lines from the factory.
The later Taylorcrafts all had aircraft aluminum fuel lines the flare is 37 1/2 degrees , the copper is 45 degrees. At some point you have to do a transition. The Model D had all copper.

So did the later L-2's.

Mike

[Ron Coleman]

Re: Copper Fuel Lines

I have had two bad experiences with alcohol involved with corrosion. I had a 1950 Studebaker that I wanted to convert from regular brake fluid to silicone (mistake #1) brake fluid. Alcohol is one of the few sovents safe to use with brake fluid, so I filled the brake system with alcohol, pumped it out and did it again. Some of the old gunk remained so I left the alcohol in the system and forgot about for about a week. Everything in the system was corroded solid and the steel brake lines were filled with rust and full of holes when I got back to it. I didn't think about alcohol being mostly water. It does the same thing in fuel tanks. . A little marvel mystery oil will help slow the corrosion in a fuel tank but you can't use a foreign oil in a brake system.

The other screw up was with a couple of antique model airplane engines (Atom and Brown). I scrubbed the caster oil residue out of the engines with alcohol. I left the crankcases soak too long and I had two badly pitted, powdery white alulminum paper weights.

Something to think about.
RonC

[taylorcraftbc65]

Re: Copper Fuel Lines

loops in the copper lines at both ends help alot at slowing the work hardening process down.

I use copper line for the oil pressure guage feed line. I took a soup can, and wrapped four turns around it, with each turn spaced about 1/4 of an inch apart from the others, and I have had no problems.
My solid fuel lines are stainless, and my flexible ones are stainless braided.
Brie

[Len Petterson]

Re: Copper Fuel Lines

No Alcohol! Be prepared it is comming according to an artice in the Rec Flyer (RAA's Magazine here in Canada) In US and Canada they want to add Ethanol even to 100 LL . Written by Brian Kenny, a fuel enginer from Petrocanada.
Yes we can run 91 octane as some refiners does not put Ethanol in the high grades. (Esso and Shell.) I am layed up for the winter so I have not checked the local supply lately, in the summer Esso 91octane did not have any alcohol in it here in the Niagara Region.
I have added a small amount of oil in my tanks for corrosion protection.(;f
I will dump what fuel and use it in the lawn mower. (;f
Note what in Sweden they have a No Lead 100 prodused in Sweden it is now avelable in Norway Denmark Estonina Finland as well. My Cusins 180 hp Lyncoming ran good on it 20 years ago. Are we in the leed here?
Len

[wingwalkers]

Re: Copper Fuel Lines

What about braided stainless steel lines like on race cars?

Keith Walker

[taylorcraftbc65]

Re: Copper Fuel Lines

Keith,
That's what I have on my BC-65. Brie

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: Copper Fuel Lines

I have the braided fuel lines in my 41 in all but one place, there is aluminum from the wing tank to the main. I had a friend (Dr. Woody Clapp) who died in a Sopwith Triplane replica back in 91. A copper fuel line split and he burned to death on the way down. I have seen way too many of two things, split fuel lines and people after fires. I worry about the copper primer line and it will probably go on the next rebuild, but it is thick wall and very soft copper. My fuel lines also get a careful look on every preflight.
Hank

[wmfife]

Re: Copper Fuel Lines

Seems the oil & fuel lines used on Grumman and Lockheed Naval A/C I worked on were a black fiber-reinforced material like synthetic rubber similar to radiator hose but tougher. Or maybe I'm thinking of hydraulic lines. But then if the lines were identifiable by sight and material we wouldn't have needed the color-coded Red /Yellow /Blue end collars. All the lines were made of this black reinforced rubberlike stuff if my memory holds up after these forty years. Any braided steel would have been covered by the black layer on the outside. So whether they were actually braided steel or woven synthetic fiber I am not able to say.

[Marv]

Re: Copper Fuel Lines

Copper line is only good to build a still.

[astjp2]

Re: Copper Fuel Lines

Aeroquip 303 or strataflex hose is what you are describing, it was steel reinforced. Mil-h-6000 was not steel reinforced.

Seems the oil & fuel lines used on Grumman and Lockheed Naval A/C I worked on were a black fiber-reinforced material like synthetic rubber similar to radiator hose but tougher. Or maybe I'm thinking of hydraulic lines. But then if the lines were identifiable by sight and material we wouldn't have needed the color-coded Red /Yellow /Blue end collars. All the lines were made of this black reinforced rubberlike stuff if my memory holds up after these forty years. Any braided steel would have been covered by the black layer on the outside. So whether they were actually braided steel or woven synthetic fiber I am not able to say.

[astjp2]

Re: Copper Fuel Lines

Tell that to Luscombe, Earcoupe, Avalon, Taylorcraft, Piper, they all used copper in the day, because it was cheap, workable and available. Tim

Copper line is only good to build a still.

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: Copper Fuel Lines

Copper also hardens with time and fatigues. When it splits you get a plane full of fuel. I lost a friend a long time ago to a split copper line. He burned to death in the air.
DO NOT USE COPPER FUEL LINES.

Hank

[wmfife]

Re: Copper Fuel Lines

Also a number of years ago a friend of mine almost burned himself up trying to pull his wife out of a burning Cub after spinning it into the ground. Fire doesn't have to follow impact. .
She was a lovely woman, inside and out. Too tragic.

Thanks astjp2 for the update on military fuel lines. Anyone know where I can get a set?

(Edit: I see A.C. Spruce has a page of Aeroquip. Looks like a good place to start.)


= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

...The first dirigibles used hydrogen. Modern blimps use helium. Early BL models had single ignition. Sometimes authenticity is not safe enough to justify preserving.

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: Copper Fuel Lines

As much of an authenticity fanatic as I am, there is NO justification for using something unsafe just because the factory did it in 1941. If Taylor had known about copper hardening and had our modern fuel lines available he never would have used copper. SAFETY FIRST! Accuracy second.
Hank


Now if we could get the FAA to understand that concept we would all be using electronic ignition.

[Marv]

Re: Copper Fuel Lines

Tell that to Luscombe, Earcoupe, Avalon, Taylorcraft, Piper, they all used copper in the day, because it was cheap, workable and available. Tim

Because they used it, do you think that makes it right? A lot of aircraft engines did not use aircleaners, including Taylorcraft. Does that mean all aircraft engines should not have aircleaners. That was at a time when there was very few asphault runways also.