proper way to shut down engine

[slam555]

compression test will verity all cylinders are within spec, for the annual, and give me the info I need to get this engine running, low compression can be a valve, but it can also be rings, if its a valve we can lap it, if its rings we need to replace it, bore scope will show me how its wearing, the valve should have a bullseye on them, since I know spark and timing are good, fuel and compression are the last things to look at

[3Dreaming]

You don't need a compression tester to find a stuck valve. You can tell there is an issue by just pulling the engine through just like trying to prime it prior to starting. If a valve is stuck you will not have the resistance of normal compression when pulling the prop through, and you can hear the hiss come from the exhaust pipe.

[slam555]

its been a difficult time for me with this plane, my instructor has more hours on it than me, and I have trust issues, I find it strange that the plane flew home without issues, and then the next day won't make power, I have called most of the A&P's around, not many have the experience with this engine, the guy I like knows a lot, but I have caught him several times on being dead wrong.

As I have said in the past, my A&P knows what I'm doing, and he prevents me from doing repairs, wrong, NOBODY has ever pointed out that the fuel shut off, should be on the dash, this is something that has been signed off from the previous A&P, so I was the one that wanted the change and while I'm, going through the engine I'll also be working on the fuel valve.

the carb is new, the mags ran once after they were installed, so its timed correctly, my compression testor is on its way, I know how to do it. again the A&P will be online or there
as I've been researching this with the 85 continentals, and sticky valves seem to be a issue,

hopefully tomorrow I would like to remove the bottom plug of the carb, if it leaks fuel, there shouldn't be anything wrong with it, like I said its new,l that leaves the idle mixture screw in back of the carb, which might have to be richened up a bit, due to the fact it not a new engine I really think I'll be finding the problem in the front 2 cylinders, 3-4 Cylinder 3 has been replaced twice. which I didn't catch when I went over the logs, so I'll know what is wrong and we'll have to see this weekend, right now its compression then scope it to have a good look inside

at least I can get it ready for spring flying, Febuary is the worst month here, and I had it planned for a lot of repair time, just not on the engine.

I belong to the Boliver EAA, they're a bunch of great guys to get to know, and they focus, on experimentals, kit plane builds, not so much restorations, so I've been considering seeing if some of the other chapters might be more helpful on the continental 85,

There is one thing though, I'm having trouble grasping, throughout my learning experience, aviation has always had tight standards, on upkeep for a plane, annual inspections, AD's , and just the scare tatic, of not doing whats correct, but while looking at planes to buy and seeing other peoples planes, how they are kept, treated, or mis treated or poorly repaired, and or discarded, not to mention the stories, on flight where they were lucky to have lived through the flight, and have to wonder wheres all these tight standards for the small GA aircraft.
out of the 5 or 6 planes I seriously looked at, 2 had all the AD's done, 4 flew but were not safe. one engine quit on landing durring the inspection and they couldn't restart it. I can only wonder what the new Mosaic rules will do

rest assured that my plane will have the AD's covered, Thanks for the info guys, always like getting on this site to talk with people on this plane, I'm hoping to find a few of you at some fly in's

[Mark Bowden]

Slam, some comments. One it is good you are here where there are resources to help you and good you are asking questions. You appeare to be learning a lot, which is also good.

As Scott said, go from working to not in a heartbeat.
I've had dual mag failures, dirt get in carb, etc... In the carb, have you checked the fuel thimble filter, tank thimble filter? You could have a stuck needle valve, you could have a float that "doesn't float". Also, there is an outer air passage between the body and inner venturi that is almost never looked at because you can't see it. If it is dirty and clogged it can be hard to start or run quite poorly.

Two, as I have mentioned in earlier posts, I’m President of VAA Chapter 16 at K34 which is not that far from you. The chapter membership has enough vintage knowledge, that it would be tough for an individual to absorb it in a lifetime. Also, Chapter 91 in Lee's Summit, EAA chapter at Lake Ozarks, go on EAA website and look for chapters, there are a lot in Missouri. Join, get help. Every EAA chapter has small motor experience.

With respect to shutdown procedures, they are easily found in Continental manuals. You can get the current manual by creating a owner membership at Continental by registering yourself and your motor. IT IS FREE. Also, you can find original manuals all over the internet and on eBay, often for next to nothing.

The 1948 Continental Operations Manual states to turn off the fuel at idle speed, let it die and open the throttle to prevent an accidental hot start. This was based on unleaded gas at 70/80 Octane. On 1100LL I taxi to the hangar and turn off the fuel during taxi close to the hangar so it stops right about where the door is. If still running I set the idle speed at 1000 rpm and let it run out of gas. I leave the gas shut off and throttle closed. I do the higher rpm to keep leaded gas from fowling the plugs. You should see an rpm rise of about 200 or so as it leans out and dies.

If you don’t have the shut off valve at the tank base with the actuation rod to the instrument panel you don’t conform to Type Design and it is not therefore Airworthy and cannot be flown until corrected. There are Taylorcraft Drawings available that show the engine installation from the old original service manuals and the reproductions from places like Univair. You can also find them regularly on eBay.

Also, as mentioned above, there is an AD (Airworthiness Directive) on the valve/knob in that it must be modified to prevent inadvertent shut off. If this is not done it is not therefore Airworthy and cannot be flown until corrected.

On compression. Turn off the fuel and mags. Take out the 4 top sparkplugs. Have someone put their thumb over each cylinder in succession and pull the prop through enough for 4 strokes on each cylinder. Feel for pressure on each compression stroke. It is a free test, a bit simpler and quicker than a compression gauge test.

It would be good to do a gauge compression test, also get a cheap borescope off Amazon. It is often more important to see the insides and the valves. This should have been part of your prebuy inspection your A&P not someone else's mechanic. Do you know how to set up a proper compression test? It is also best done with a helper to hold the prop, you wouldn't want to wack yourself in the head.

I trust you are doing all this work under a licensed mechanics supervision per regulations. Otherwise you are just repeating the sins of the prior owner. This is a certificated aircraft, the service methods and rules are strict. If you want something you can wrench on at will, that is what Experimentals are for.

Another good rule of thumb on aircraft purchases, even it the paperwork and the aircraft are in perfect shape, you should budget 10-15% of the purchase price to start fixing things as soon as you get it home. Stuff instantly breaks, fact of life. It applies to new, out of the factory aircraft too.

Hope this helps, Mark

[slam555]

Small Continentals can go from running fine to not... quickly.

Any mechanic worth his/her salt can quickly determine why there's low or no compression. A sudden loss of compression may be associated with sticky or stuck valve(s). Not uncommon with small continentals. Again easy to determine which valve is leaking.

Sticky or stuck valves can be remedied without cylinder removal. But again, you'll need to find someone who knows what they're doing.

no disrespect but consider directing your energies toward fixing problems one by one, in place of looking for someone to blame.

I know people seem to believe light aircraft maintenance is easy, but that's usually because they don't know what they don't know.

There's no easy button!
S

small continental mechanics are rare here, I've gone to calling places that specialize in rebuilding them and the manuals for accurate info. such as shut down procedures and correct oil to use. since it did run after the mags, I can rule out timing, I need to know that the carb is delivering fuel, on the last time trying to start it i primed it while turning it over and it almost caught.
that tells me its either a fuel issue or a stuck valve.

so this week I'll be getting the guage set for compression, and I'll be pulling the plug on the bottom of the carb, if the carb has fuel in the bowl , then the engine isn't sucking it into the cylinders, one way or another it'll be getting fixed, personally I don't want to replace the carb again they are a bear to out and back in,

with that in mind has anyone ever taken down the manifold to remove the carb and carb heat box and the put it back as 1 assembly 2 bolts and 4 hose connections sounds a little easier
thanks for the info guys

[slam555]

guess we're try again for the pics as you can see in the second pic theres the valve, with the fuel line going through the firewall, in the third you can see the throttle controls and the valve in back.
when I get the engine running or just have a little time I'll figure out a way to get the control to the dash, as I agree with everyone that it should be where you can access it quickly, but not accidentally

[Scott]

Small Continentals can go from running fine to not... quickly.

Any mechanic worth his/her salt can quickly determine why there's low or no compression. A sudden loss of compression may be associated with sticky or stuck valve(s). Not uncommon with small continentals. Again easy to determine which valve is leaking.

Sticky or stuck valves can be remedied without cylinder removal. But again, you'll need to find someone who knows what they're doing.

no disrespect but consider directing your energies toward fixing problems one by one, in place of looking for someone to blame.

I know people seem to believe light aircraft maintenance is easy, but that's usually because they don't know what they don't know.

There's no easy button!
S

[3Dreaming]

No pictures.

[slam555]

well hopefully by the pics you guys can see what a real hack the previous owner and his A&P really were,, as for the buyers inspection the plane looked good and logs also looked good. as for someone with the experience with that type of plane non existant. the locals who had one were unwilling to help and when the guy who flew it back looked at the logs he thought they were good, but how can a plane whose last annual showed compression test at 74's on the log, go to nothing this year and only 10 hours of flight time. its had new oil and filters, new air filters repairs out the wazoo then after taking it to have the radio fixed it all turned bad. wouldn't go above 1500 rpm, new mag, still no power, then it wouldn't even start, now new carb, (does anyone know how hard it is to replace that carb. now it sputters on the prime thats it. I guess I'll have to give it a compression test, and check the bowl of the new carb to see if the needle it stuck, because when I kept priming it while turning it over it was as close to running as I've gotten it in weeks of working on it.
here's my dash that was rebuilt by the old A&P, no shut off knob, it should be where the starter handle is, this one has the valve at the bottom of the tank, no handle or rod going to the dash, I'm going to take a better look at how its attached and get a rod working it to the dash and moving the starter handle to the left side of yoke

after all this hassle if someone would like the plane they can buy it from me, I really don't feel like fixing it, would like just to get out from under it, where's the best place to buy rebuilt
cylinders.

My current A&P who has done most of the latest repairs with me assisting him, has talked about reporting the other A&P, it is clear that he cooked the books on the last annual and his repairs are dangerous and just plain stupid,

[Hank Jarrett]

This is an easy fix. I doubt your A&P will even want to enter it in the logs. You are just putting it back to original. He will only want to be sure it doesn't leak and works well.

Hank

[3Dreaming]

I'll take a pic of mine, then at least you cans see what mine looks like and tell me how to get it fixed. If I knew the hassels of this plane before I bought it I never would have

That is a perfect example of why it is important to have a pre buy inspection done by someone who is familiar with the aircraft type.

[Hank Jarrett]

When you see how it goes in it isn't a tough change. I would put in one of the replacement "Ball valve" shut off valves since they are almost maintenance free and totally reliable. You just need to put it in with the lever on the pilots side after the tank is checked for an leaks. The rod comes up and the knob shaft goes through one of the holes under the panel. Once you have it in you will wonder how you got along without it! The shut off is the knob just to the left of the throttle in the photo but it isn't screwed into the push rod that goes to the valve. (No, those are NOT the final knobs. This is from before I cast all new ones that match).
PA230011.jpg

[slam555]

The original IS the one with the rod to a knob just under the panel. You pull the knob to rotate the valve and shut off the fuel. Taylorcraft NEVER built a plane that required you to reach down under the panel up by the valve near the firewall.

I'll take a pic of mine, then at least you cans see what mine looks like and tell me how to get it fixed. If I knew the hassels of this plane before I bought it I never would have

[3Dreaming]

The line going through the firewall essentially provides support for the valve. Welding or attaching an additional bracket to the tank may create other unknown issues.

[slam555]

during this winter, I'm removing the tank and having it worked on, I'll be adding in a bracket to hold the new valve which will be able to turned on and off from the dash. and keep the stress off the tank fittings