Wheel Landings - Airspeed Issues

[TCUDustoff]

Question for the group. Most of my tail-wheel time before the T-craft was in a J-3. I was taught to practice wheel landings going down the runway in a crosswind with the downwind wing up -- you want one wheel on the ground and keep it there as long as you can down the runway to practice. Now, in my Taylorcraft I feel like this is VERY hard. I need to add so much RPM to get aileron authority to get the wing up in a 10-12 knot direct crosswind that I am on the precipice of flight. I am constantly battling throttle versus bouncing up and down as she wants to fly.

Is this due to the difference in the airfoil and wing between a J-3 and Taylorcraft? Pre-war tail? I flew in my friends 39' J-3 the other day and I had no issues....making sure I am not insane here. I've also noticed I need to come in way faster in the Taylorcraft for a good wheel landing over the J-3; if I come in at same airspeed, she wants to three point. I think this is, again, airfoil related. Is 65 to 70 MPH to fast to wheel land? Any slower and I find it hard to land without bouncing. I think this is due to the high AOA you are at slower -- hit and bounce is more pronounced due to the already high AOA at that airspeed.

Anyways, love the observations and experience from folks! Trying to master both airplanes.

[Ragwing nut]

short mount tcrafts dont really like to wheel land. The F19 and F21 is easier to do with the forward cg

[TCUDustoff]

We constantly have significant cross winds here. 6000x150' wide runways (ww2 army air corp base) so I am ballsy. I have done wheel landings with direct 15-16 knot crosswinds, but anything more and I feel like I am going to hit the wing on the runway. Tons of aileron. My hangar mate has flown P-51s, P-40s, F4Us, F4Fs, F5Fs, and a handful of other fighters -- he tells me to ALWAYS wheel land if you EVER want to fly a ww2 aircraft. Just trying to keep my skills sharp since I want to get a T-6 some day. I am in my upper 30s, and he keeps telling me I am the future for Tora Tora and other groups; trying to get as much tailwheel time as I can. (Guess my UH-60 time doing wheel landings for simulated hydraulic, tail-rotor, and stabilizer failures doesn't count )

[Hank Jarrett]

A T and a Cub are DIFFERENT airplanes. You can't apply a single landing technique to all planes. A PBY lands fine in water but that doesn't mean other planes can do it. I agree if you want to fly a WW-II warbird you will need to train in the right plane but neither a Cub or Taylorcraft is the right trainer. To fly a P-40 or P-51 you are going t need time in something like a Stearman and a LOT of time in a T-6...........NOT a low power light plane.

[Scott]

I think the BC12D has more wing area which ads to the ground handling challenges.

One thing is certain, the airplane needs to stop flying to land. Irrespective of the type of landing I'm going to do, my approach is always the same. I find wheel landings are best made at the speed that gets the nose up but not as high as for three point. I suspect this is only 5mph or so higher than for a three point landing.

Sometimes you need to antisipate the mainwheel touchdown and release back pressure on the yoke. The change in pitch means immediate need to be on the rudder and ailerons. This is the critical phase especially in gusting crosswind conditions, may need full rudder and even brake on that side (surprising how easy it is to end up 90 degrees to the runway). Keep the tail up and keep straight. Once you have a good amount of into wind ailerons, and the possibility of flight is reduced, lower the tail and contiue with up elevator.

I don't fly enough, but when I did, the above is what I learned. Not sure there's much learning for you with the power on excercise you describe, best just do lots of landings.

Also, it's easier when the airplane is at gross.
S

[Ragwing nut]

tail is MUCH heavier than a cub. they just don't like doing wheel landings.

[3Dreaming]

tail is MUCH heavier than a cub. they just don't like doing wheel landings.

That has never been my experience. I do wheel landings on the regular.

The Cub has a high lift airfoil compared to the Taylorcraft. The ailerons will become effective at a lower speed. That being said you can do what you described, but it will take more speed. I have done Hoover's Tennessee waltz in a Taylorcraft before.

[Ragwing nut]

That has never been my experience. I do wheel landings on the regular.

The Cub has a high lift airfoil compared to the Taylorcraft. The ailerons will become effective at a lower speed. That being said you can do what you described, but it will take more speed. I have done Hoover's Tennessee waltz in a Taylorcraft before.

prewars are lighter than postwar and act a little different. I'm not saying they won't wheel land, but I have flown alot of other aircraft that was alot easier.

[skip]

For what it's worth...
When I first got my 1946 BC12-D with a C-85 (longer engine mount than the A-65. more like the F19) I loved to wheel land it. about 17 years ago I had some friends invite me over to the Utah Canyon lands to get a good back-country checkout. After that experience I moved to three-pointing it even in crosswinds. Their argument is that there is a second or so as the tail drops where you really don't have control. The Tcraft has plenty of rudder and as long as you keep it tracking down the runway it three-points very neatly in most any winds and is more controllable throughout the whole process. My current limits are 15 knots direct cross wind and with our airport here we get lots of practice in the spring. My particular plane has an indicated stall speed of 40 mph and I approach at 55.
Again, for what it's worth...

Skip Egdorf
N34237

[Laz]

Never really had a problem with wheel landings in my BC12-D. I learned most of my flying skills in my Tcraft and it has served me well for over 54 years of flying. If all you are trying to do is roll down the runway with one wheel down and hold it there you need one of two things. airspeed or power. As will almost all airplanes you have to do what it takes to get the result you want. Running a plane down a runway with one wheel in the air is more of a "hat trick" than practice. It does build your ability to control the plane. Every plane is different of course. the cub is totally different from the T. I have very little cub time.

I have a RV8 and cannot and would not run it down a runway with one wheel in the air in a heavy cross wind. even with close to 3000 hours of tail wheel time , my insurance company insisted in dual before I flew my 8. I went to Bruce Bohannon for a couple of hours. Bruce is the only person I know who gives instruction from the back of his RV8 (he has brakes back there). Bruce taught me that the RV8 should never be wheel landed in a strong cross wind. The reasons the RV8 elevator says effective longer than its rudder. You can easy get into a situation where you loose lateral control with the rudder and have no control with the tail wheel in the air. One of the great things about a Tcraft is it has almost instantaneous rudder control with very little airspeed. It has a big rudder and a long arm that makes that happen.

As far as wheel landing a T. I never have had any problems. The big thing is knowing your limits and the plane. The T is a great little plane.