My first ground loop

[3Dreaming]

There are all kinds of thoughts and theories on how to tie down an airplane. I prefer to have the elevator tied forward, and the tail rope loose enough to allow the tail to come up far enough to dump the lift from the wings if the wind comes from the front. If the wind comes from the rear it will hold the tail down. I have heard stories from when salesmen were flying these airplanes around when new, and they tied the controls forward and parked the airplanes not tied down. This allowed the airplanes to weathervane into the wind, and the tail to come up dumping the lift.

Dad made a control lock for his airplane, but we haven't used it the past few years. It locked the control wheel slightly forward, with the ailerons and rudder in neutral position.

[PA1195]

This is an interesting discussion. I've never used a cable lay tie down but hear they exist. Most here are buried three point eyes of some sort to tie the ropes to. No chains. Bring your own rope. On skis on frozen surfaces we use permanent holes drilled through the ice with T-boards underneath or long mountain climber ice screws for temporary tie down setups. On floats duckbill earth anchors driven into the lake bottom and on shore hold the plane. I also use them when parked on wheels over dirt.

Gust locks can be made from two pieces of padded material usually screwed together and inserted between the control hinges. I have them but for the ailerons and elevator in addition or in lieu of the locks I prefer to run a stout bungee cord with end hooks from the inside edge of one control yoke to the other over the top of the front windshield brace. That pulls the elevator controls forward and locks the ailerons. The bungee will stretch some to reduce control and cable/chain stress. For the rudder two pieces of padded 1x4 slipped over the top of the vert stabilizer and rudder and fastened at the front and back halfway down like a big clamp.

At the upper end of the front lift strut I have a common Piper Cub tiedown ring bolted to the spar brackets. They fit just fine as built.

The secret to a night's sleep are the spoiler wing covers I mentioned above. For rear wing compression loads installing a heavy duty rear lift strut or temporarily fastening a 2x4 along the strut will help prevent compression failure.

One thing with Cub strut failure from rear wind loads is the use of large tires up to 35" diameter. That raises the wing's angle and probably places more loads on the rear spar when the wind is from the back. Planes with small tires are more streamlined.

Gary

[waltermrich]

Thanks Mark for the information on Marine tie down ropes , I will be buying some as soon as it warms up around here. The weather is going to be very cold for several days maybe longer.

[n6346m]

Perhaps we should move this discussion to a new post so when looking up tie-downs in the search engine all this good information can be found.

Bob Picard

[M Towsley]

Bob, the search will find the words in this, and any other, thread.

[lawheelock]

I strongly disagree with using external gust locks on any airplane for any reason. Too easy to forget in a rush. Several years ago the basketball team of the college I graduated from was lost due to gust locks.
The team was to depart Evansville, IN in a chartered DC3. They took off, but the weather was too bad to proceed to Nashville, I think it was, so turned around and came back and landed. It was night, blowing, and raining. The pilot or someone installed external gust locks on all the control surfaces. Sometime later, the pilot decided the weather had improved enough and hurridly took off. They crashed and killed all! Ntsb found all the external gust locks still on the control surfaces or what was left of them. Cause: Forgetting to remove gust locks.
I have heard of other instances of fatalities too. One was in a tandem cockpit airplane that took off with a single pilot in the front seat and the previous pilot had secured the rear stick with the seat belt. Others, too with external gust locks.
I wouild rather have my plane damaged due to wind on the control surfaces which one should be able to readily assess than to have an accident due to forgetfulness. Yeah, I know, use your checklist, but why set up for a potential accident?
I have always had side by side seating, Taylorcraft, Stinson, Mooney. I secure controls with the seat belt in the pilot seat. Hard to get in with that arrangement. If the wind damages cables or chains or push pull tubes, it will have done lots of other obvious damage too.
Larry Wheelock

[woodmw]

I remember that crash. It happened on my birthday in 1977. I grew up in southern Illinois and we got our TV from Evansville. Followed Purple Aces for years. I have asked the one question since the accident. If the pilot had done a control check, i.e., aileron, elevator, rudder, would he have felt the locks? Certainly in our planes, you would know if anything was locked. I suppose a control check could be considered part of a checklist, but I think it more of a habit ingrained in my brain since my first lesson in that C150 42 years ago. I think I do it by rote. I can't imagine anyone taking the active without checking controls free.

[PA1195]

I strongly suggest that gust locks are only as safe as the PIC, especially those prone to a rush. If that person or crew can't do a pre-flight walk around and then confirm the control function prior to takeoff...then I'd ask about their competency later in flying the airplane. The plane above didn't crash only due to the locks..,.it crashed because of a lack of adequate PIC awareness prior to flight. If controls are mechanically compromised due to excessive stress while parked then who is to be responsible for determining that condition (especially if it's an internal issue) prior to flight?

Now having said that I have departed an airport with a pitot tube cover still on. I screwed up and forgot to check twice in my average 7500 hrs. My bad..not the cover's. Now it's an automatic red light before departure.

Use or don't. It's a pilot's preference. Best learning experience is go visit the plane during a wind event and convince yourself all the abnormal and unrestrained control movement are airworthy.

Gary

[n6346m]

Bob, the search will find the words in this, and any other, thread.

Mark,
I understand what you say, but most of the time I'm not looking for anything special but just perusing the subject matter listed in the title in which I'm interested.. Sometimes just searching for some words turns up way more information choices than I'm willing to deal with. Although I was not specifically looking for tie-down information I did find some interesting stuff in this thread by accident. I guess I'm wrong thinking that this should be under its own "subject", Being a long time follower of these forums I often find that a listed "subject" tends to drift off into a completely different subject matter altogether. My apologies if I spoke out of turn.

Bob Picard
N48923 Taylorcraft L-2B
N6346M Stinson 108-3
Anchor Point, Alaska
TF #254

[PA1195]

Most gust locks have or should have attraction streamers attached. Bright colored tapes that alert the pilot something's been added to the plane that requires removal prior to flight. Same for any tie down ropes it helps to have them marked somehow. I know a pilot that tried to drag an oil drum down the runway because he didn't notice the rope buried in the snow that tied the plane's tail to that anchor. There were two ropes on the tail and he had removed the one he installed and not the other done by another pilot.

I respectfully share Larry's concern above about these matters and only hope we take the time to look things over in a calm manner before flight.

Gary

[SpecialT]

I don't mind someone changing the title of the post to "Tie-down failure" or some other useful title if it will help someone. I tried to edit the post but couldn't modify the title of the post.

[SpecialT]

Tragically enough our airport has a bad story about a DC-3 and gust locks. I personally use an external rudder gust lock that fits over my tail cover, so it would be very hard to miss removing it to fly. My error was relying on the old cotton ropes provided at the airport, there was a 182 tied 2 over and he brought his own ropes. His plane moved over a couple of feet but did not suffer any damage.

https://aviation-safety.net/database...?id=19710628-0

PROBABLE CAUSE:
pilot in command - inadequate preflight preparation and/or planning
miscellaneous acts,conditions - gust locks engaged
FACTOR:
miscellaneous acts,conditions - aircraft came to rest in water

Here's a picture of the 1971 article about the accident.

[PA1195]

Years ago after my 2nd pitot tube covered flight I made (well my wife made) a cloth tag to hang on the throttle...."remove gust locks and covers". It's disappeared but the memory lingers. Planes do fly with no indicated airspeed so no real harm was done. Muscle memory makes me twist and deflect the controls before flight but covers are another matter to deal with on a walk around, especially those that cover the cowling intakes.

Those ropes that get old are hard to diagnose. Maybe use ours and forget theirs always? I'd also be concerned and have a mechanic inspect any strut or spar-fuselage fittings after a good blow, especially when tied to the upper strut end. On Pipers and others with metal spars it's possible to install dedicated tie downs that leave the strut fittings alone (http://www.fadodge.com/aircraft-tiedowns/). Not sure if that would be possible on a Taylorcraft outboard of the strut. I have seen flat nylon straps wrapped around front wing spars that then extend below the wing to tie to. Of course there's nothing wrong with also tying to the landing gear as well just in case. I've done that but mainly when tied down on a frozen lake when extra ice screws were onboard (https://www.backcountry.com/black-di...bo-ice-screws?)

Gary

[Hank Jarrett]

If you are worried that someone might leave a gust lock on just tie the locks to the tail tie down ropes so you can't taxi away with the tail tied down. To untie the tail you HAVE TO take the gust locks off.

Hank

Not perfect, but better than taking off with a gust lock on or having the plane damaged by a gust.

[LostnSpace]

. I have seen flat nylon straps wrapped around front wing spars that then extend below the wing to tie to.

Hi Gary, how was the flat strap put around the spar?, was the fabric cut and it is shoved around?, just wondering, sounds like a real positive way of holding onto the wing, gary