For the Record

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: For the Record

For me, I would really like to get a set of instructions on what steps are needed to safely stitch the metal ribs. I don't really think there is any more discussion needed, just something we could put in the tech section for a novice to safely cover wings and not get too far in before an A&P or IA comes in and he has to re-do parts of it. Something that paraphrases the 43.13 with each step, including protecting sharp edges, and when a certified mechanic should check it to be sure we are in compliance with the regs and also safe from problems that seem a bit unique to our ribs.

Hank

[SpecialT]

Re: For the Record

If anyone has some rebuilt wings, laced with aluminum ribs and you are sketched out or unsure, you can sell them to me for cheap. I'll put them on an experimental and put it back into phase 1 and let you know how they work out. But only if they have tape on the ribs before you did the lacing.

Just trying to offer you guys a third alternative.

[PA1195]

Re: For the Record

There has to be an approved method of deburring, dulling, or rolling the sharp edge of stamped ribs. Even I with a simple file or abrasive flapper on a drill motor can get rid of a sharp edge that might cut.

How about a better method? And as Hank suggests instructions for safe stitching and later inspection would be a great aid to those of us not trained in the art of covering.

Gary

[waltermrich]

Re: For the Record

In my opinion if there was this much energy spent on trying to figure out how to get a die and a roll made for making Taylorcraft wire made , something might get accomplished . That would be a wish come true for most of us, any suggestions ?

[Scott]

Re: For the Record

I know John and I want this whole thing to be done (done RIGHT) so I am asking just a tad more indulgence. I found a copy of the 43.13 on line ( https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/...-1B_w-chg1.pdf since my paper copy is in the hangar and I was going by memory before). The covering portion in question is in chapter 2 section 8. I couldn’t see anywhere that it requires covering the metal of the ribs with tape prior to covering. Could someone let us all know where the actual rib taping part is that shows this and maybe post it so we all understand how it should be done CORRECTLY.

If it isn’t in the 43.13 I would suggest we create a more clear instruction for our aircraft, IN ADDITION TO the requirements of the 43.13, to keep the kind of cut cords I saw from happening to any of the Tribe. At least then all of us would know exactly how it should be done with no more worrying by any of us (me). The first diagram I found was Figure 2-3 showing a wood rib, the copy I am using shows no metal ribs (which is kind of strange to me) and it shows no tape over the rib before the fabric. I am thinking experienced A&Ps and IAs would probably tape the sharp edges as a matter of good practices, but I don’t see where someone doing their first wing would know that since it isn’t shown in the manual.
Hank

Hank, I posted this the other day.
What you're looking for is Page 2-11 paragraph d

.... " Care must be taken to insure that all sharp edges against which the lacing cord may bear are protected by tape in order to prevent abrasion of the cord."

It's worth considering that AC 43.13 is a generic document, it's value lies in the lack of specificity. So the practices and standards can be applied to all aircraft, when there is a lack of information available from the manufacturer. It was not created with laymen in mind, so the step by step is not going to be there regardless of the topic.

There are a couple of details to be concerned about when lacing the post war wing, but really nothing out of the ordinary, other than the rib edge protection. There are a couple of places that cannot be stitched all the way around the rib, so either use rivets there or stitch just the flange. Don't pull the lacing too tight because the flange can flex over a little (appearance only issue), and make sure you plot the stitch locations to avoid the Aileron cables and other structure. One way or another it's all covered in published literature and covering STC.

[Clark]

Re: For the Record

I have read on different threads about the "rivet," method and wire the "Taylorcraft wire," and "Martin." I assume you are all talking about the Post-War "T's." I had my 46 done by an A & P in the late 80's while i was away working to pay for it so didn't get involved in that detail. I recently removed the fabric from the wings of the 1940 B and it has a truss aluminum rib. There was no wire, rivets is this the norm on the prewar aircraft. I got a bit anxious after talking with a guy last week who has had and worked on many Taylorcrafts in the past and he seemed puzzled when I told him there were no rivets, no wires and no clips. Then in looking at Rob Lees photos he shows pic's where he is reforming the grove in the rib so the wire won't stick out. Mine have no groove either. I came here as you were all talking about this and after using the search function under the Model B's and becoming impatient I thought I'd ask if any one has inputs with the B ribs and whether their stitching was different?

[flylo]

Re: For the Record

Prewars were rib stitched. Ifyou need to repair ribs Aircraft Spruce has Cub rib repair which is about the same thing & works fine. You have to remember Cubs were Taylor Cubs & many things were the same ftom Taylor Cubs to B model Tcrafts. No rivets were ever used on any Taylorcraft at the factory. Rib stiching is very easy & pretty fast when you use several needles & 2 people. It's not rocket science & was & is used on many planes. As far as the post wars Scott is exactly right anti chafing tape is all you need. For experimentals I like HiPec glue on out of Canada. !/2 the price of anything here & if I recall only 3 coats total so it keeps the weight & work down. I have a quote 8 years old for the Taylorcoupe experimental ex-Tcraft of $2200 including color.

[3Dreaming]

Re: For the Record

The truss ribs get stitched. Taylorcraft wire or rivets will not work.

[Clark]

Re: For the Record

Thanks, flylo and 3Dreaming. I was puzzled and a bit anxious as to what kind of complications I might get into. For the my future reference, is pre war 1941 and before? What are the years of the war 42-44, referred to as? And does post war begin with 1945 or is '45' part of the war years?

[Mark Bowden]

Re: For the Record

If you follow Chet Peeks book and when significant changes happens, actual war calendar years started and coincided with the BC/BL-12, the Model D trainer and the glider entering production in and about 1941. Chet calls one chapter the war years 43-45.

As the war wound down, VJ -Day, Surrender, Sept., '45 they were working on getting the BC12-D certified and got the TC Nov 23, 1945.

Last half of BC-12D '45's are a collection of parts as they used up stock from the BC-65 and BC12-65's and started production before TC of the BC12-D. They delivered the first BC12-D August 30, 1945.

To your question, the stamped ribs were developed in 1944 by Charles Hodgekins for use after the war. Taylorcraft was the first to successfully implement into commercial production a stamped rib. But not the first to try it. The Brits, Short Brothers, did the first successful stamped design on the Silver Streak but it never entered production as it was a concept aircraft for test by the British government as no one trusted aluminum at that time. The Curtis Robin had stamped ribs but they had to be filled with wood.

Chet states that in Feb. 1946 was when the first stamped ribs were installed. It would be interesting to find that serial number!

Because of a repair in the 1950's my RH wing has 6 stamped nose ribs, 3 center stamped ribs. All ribs in the wing were stitched for 50 years. And stitched in restoration in 1999 and fine to this day. All ribs aft of the aft spar are all stick built riveted assembled ribs. Thus I have a flying blend, it was done under a 337 repair form.

Mark