Considering Purchase Of A project 41 modified to F 19

[astjp2]

Re: Considering Purchase Of A project 41 modified to F 19

Thank You Hank! great answers! The plne will require a bit of work to get it back to stock (getting rid of some junk added to make it a seaplane and also the model 19 mods. I hope the seat parts are there (support for canvas) need to get some more pictures for sure. . Thank You again

You can throw the seaplane stuff my way!

[PA1195]

Re: Considering Purchase Of A project 41 modified to F 19

You can throw the seaplane stuff my way!

Need a lower fin just for floats? Not needed for 85's but I have one.

Gary

[Jim Herpst]

Re: Considering Purchase Of A project 41 modified to F 19

You can throw the seaplane stuff my way!

Current owner is not sure what the restoration guys on the last go were doing. They added handles to the top longeron..figured seaplane. those would need to come off. will need to check for any other. They would of course also need to come off what ever is there. The plane will need a serious diet if it would go back with a 65. It is going to take a ton of work to bring it back to life (covering alone is a ton of work....) Before that happens the plane needs a lot of help.

Hank or anyone...is it true the prewar fuselages had the tubing treated with hot linseed oil? Thought I heard that somewhere... Also it does still have the banjo wheels.. Hank...how should they be done? They are all in primer now.... The cast nose bowl pieces are apparently there...alas the side pieces apparently are not. The panel is a mess ..as I said it is going to take A LOT of work to get it where it needs to be. Also Hank you mentioned the Cast fittings. Did they ever determine an accident with these? I recall one A Pilot ...(thought the name was Josh..had a mysterious roll into the ground at low altitude ...believe landing? The ribs on this one are as I mentioned stamped and all have been zinc primed. Need to look at those as well (weight)..the good and the bad always.....

[astjp2]

Re: Considering Purchase Of A project 41 modified to F 19

You can send the shafts for the yokes to me get rechromed, I have had a few sets done by a local shop and his prices are not too bad. I think they were under $100 for the pair. I also have new phenolic for the cable guides and the control yokes if you need some. Don't forget to get axe handle savers for the bump stops for your gear. Start posting some pics! Also moving the grab handles is not a sea plane thing from any of the ones I have seen, just makes it so you don't have to bend over....on a land plane. Also get new pulleys from Doug Combs (luscombe guy), this will be some of the best money you will spend for an upgrade. Tim

[Jim Herpst]

Re: Considering Purchase Of A project 41 modified to F 19

You can send the shafts for the yokes to me get rechromed, I have had a few sets done by a local shop and his prices are not too bad. I think they were under $100 for the pair. I also have new phenolic for the cable guides and the control yokes if you need some. Don't forget to get axe handle savers for the bump stops for your gear. Start posting some pics! Also moving the grab handles is not a sea plane thing from any of the ones I have seen, just makes it so you don't have to bend over....on a land plane. Also get new pulleys from Doug Combs (luscombe guy), this will be some of the best money you will spend for an upgrade. Tim

Thank You ! I will send some pics...

[Jim Herpst]

Re: Considering Purchase Of A project 41 modified to F 19

Also Helpful on the Chrome plating. Tougher to find places these days. I think we have one down in Augusta...however they may be gone now Yes the ball bearing pulleys are the deal !

[PA1195]

Re: Considering Purchase Of A project 41 modified to F 19

Upper hand holds are typically added for ski flying as they help lift the tail if standing in deep snow. But as Tim notes it's a convenience item for wheels as well. Not correct per the TCDS but very common in Alaska on several aircraft models...Citabria, Cub, Arctic Tern, etc. No need for it on floats but then we add a tail stinger in place of the tail spring to lift the tail from below or tie it to the shore.

Gary

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: Considering Purchase Of A project 41 modified to F 19

As far as I have seen the pre war (and the post war planes I have seen) were treated with boiled linseed oil. It was the standard for decades and is still used by many (I think there are more modern options but I haven’t messed with any of them).

The Banjo wheels are Deluxe only and contrary to what many believe they were NOT chrome plated. It is nickel plate. Nickel has a slightly “dusky” look compared to the mirror finish of chrome. If you plan to re-plate the parts you can often get a better price with a plater if you can wait for him to have a batch of plating to do. Your parts will just be plated in the tank with someone else’s parts. There is one thing you should NOT compromise on when they plate your parts. They MUST be Hydrogen embrittlement relieved within 30 minutes after being removed from the plating solution by baking the parts at 350*F + or – 25* for 24 hours. If this isn’t done you can get cracks in the parts! They will try to tell you it isn’t required but do NOT listen. Go to another plating shop if needed. I have a really high quality company here I use if you need it. (Yea, I used to be a plating engineer for the Navy) Agree completely with everything else Tim said. If his wheels didn’t crack by now he is probably ok, but the risk was there. I would NOT take the risk.

Do your cast grills have the “wings” that wrap around to the back of the bowl? I have some photos of them if you don’t know what I am talking about. That is the important part. There ARE side trims out there and I am trying to make new ones (mine have some holes drilled in them, well camouflaged, but they really BUG ME!). The plane will fly just fine without the full set of trim until you can get them or they can be made.

I have a buck to form 41 panels and have bought an extra original panel to verify my buck and make any mods to get it as prefect as possible. There is a lot of work to build a good 41 panel, but they sure look great and are worth the effort.

As for the cast aileron fittings, I have a box full of corroded and cracked ones I have taken off of wings. As far as I know there hasn’t been a crash from a broken hinge, but the cast ones really make me nervous. The crash you heard about was Josh’s plane. The FAA and NTSB initially thought a failed bellcrank was the cause, but the crank failed because of the crash, it wasn’t the of cause it. I actually own Josh’s plane now and it is the 1940 I have in one of my hangars for restoration. He was a really good friend, but the plane DID NOT crash because of a control problem. Discussing details wouldn’t be appropriate here, maybe face to face some day.

I have not actually weighed stick and stamped ribs (I plan to, but haven’t yet) but have been told the stamped wings are actually lighter than pre war wings. I still find it hard to believe, but can’t say without actual facts. Just the finish could easily account for one type wing weighing more than the other. I CAN say from experience that the stamped wings are significantly stronger. I would NOT try to put stick ribs on yours unless you are like me and are a rabid originality nut.

The serious diet is the very best thing you can do for your plane. Taking weight out will improve performance, control response and just flat out make her a better plane. Ever ounce you leave on the ground will make her better. It isn't just weight from the plane itself. I lost around 30# using useful load improvements as an incentive. Best diet I ever went on. Auto fuel weighs 6 ¼# per Gallon! I tracked my weight loss by gallons instead of pounds, and it worked! When you are rebuilding look at EVERYTHING you put in. I weighed and compared different brands of foam for the seats as well as upholstery materials and took enough unused wired out to ......well, it was a BUNCH. Think hard before you add that extra coat of paint. I even looked for 2 ply tires but couldn't find any. KEEP HER LIGHT!

Hank


And POST PHOTOS!!!

[astjp2]

Re: Considering Purchase Of A project 41 modified to F 19

Hank, I only did the shafts, mine were originally copper nickel chrome from what the plater showed me when I took them in. Oh and in the oven at 350* takes care of any hydrogen embrittlement.

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: Considering Purchase Of A project 41 modified to F 19

Yea, what we found out in landing gear plating was if it didn't crack in the first few months the Hydrogen actually worked it's way out and the older the plating was the less chance it would crack. All the baking did was get the Hydrogen out quickly before it caused the cracking. We had an F-14 main landing gear piston that the guys went to lunch and didn't get it in the oven before they sat down to eat. It was sitting on a bull dog cart in front of the oven when it split all the way up one side. Sounded like a cannon going off!!! They were pretty good about getting them straight into the ovens after that!
I have gotten two Banjos now and both of them were Nickel. I am betting that someone put chrome on yours because the nickel is MUCH softer and both of mine had wear marks through the plating on the shafts. Chrome would last a LOT longer! There is a way to make chrome with a softer, less shinny finish, but we never used it on landing gear. ;-) By the way, the spokes on the Banjo were also plated.

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: Considering Purchase Of A project 41 modified to F 19

I took some photos of the wing tip light that are correct for a 41 Deluxe. Note that the light housing is NOT the same as later or earlier lights. The first shot is straight back, the second is straight in from the tip and the third is straight up from below. As you can see the light is level with the tip bow but angles OUT much more than other lights. Also note the bail that holds the glass dome on (most of the time). Some glass domes do NOT have the two small tits that hold the bail and they pop off much easier. The glass is getting much harder to find and they break very easily.

Hank

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: Considering Purchase Of A project 41 modified to F 19

I also got some shots of the 41 Deluxe door latch. They were made by "Dexter" which was bought out by Schleige (SP?) up until about 10 years ago. It is a wood screen door latch. I found several an old time lock smith had in his parts drawers some time back but gave them away to other 41 Deluxe owners. Check the OLD TIME hardware stores and locksmiths. The guys who are coming into the business now days don't seem to know anything about them, but Taylor just went to the local hardware store for these latches. The much newer ones I found were IDENTICAL and even the internal parts were interchangeable (I wants to keep the old bolt and striker plate on mine). If the locksmith is shy on teeth and grey haired you are asking the right guys.
The next shot is of my inside door handle and the third is the window latch. Window latches aren't hard to make, but handles are. The escutcheon plate behind my handle is original. It is a hardware store plate for a bathroom faucet handle! Taylor must have spent a lot of time in the hardware store!

Hank

[astjp2]

Re: Considering Purchase Of A project 41 modified to F 19

My shafts were worn through to the bare metal, you could see the steel, copper, nickel then chrome on top...and you could feel the difference as you pushed the yoke forward and back. Tim

[3Dreaming]

Re: Considering Purchase Of A project 41 modified to F 19

I took some photos of the wing tip light that are correct for a 41 Deluxe. Note that the light housing is NOT the same as later or earlier lights. The first shot is straight back, the second is straight in from the tip and the third is straight up from below. As you can see the light is level with the tip bow but angles OUT much more than other lights. Also note the bail that holds the glass dome on (most of the time). Some glass domes do NOT have the two small tits that hold the bail and they pop off much easier. The glass is getting much harder to find and they break very easily.

Hank

The domes or lenses depending on what you want to call them, are available from Aircraft Spruce. I had to order a clear lens for dad's airplane when we were putting it together.

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: Considering Purchase Of A project 41 modified to F 19

Wonder if someone tried to do a flash chrome over the Ni and bare areas. If they did the new chrome would probably fail in the same area. I really don't think chrome is a bad thing for the shaft. It will wear much better than the Ni and unless you REALLY knew what to look for you would never notice the difference from Ni.