Taylorcraft Instruction Advice.

[JamesJackson737]

Hi,

A family friend has recently acquired a 1941 BC-12 and has asked me to check him out in it and give him a tailwheel endorsement. As a part of the deal he will be keeping the airplane on our 1,100ft grass strip. (One way in/ One way out, with a good approach.) However I've never flown a Taylorcraft before but I am current other light taildraggers (J3s, PA-18s etc.) So flying the airplane doesn't bother me much but does anyone have any advice on instructing in a BC-12 with no brakes on the right side?

Thanks and Regards,

James Goodnight

[3Dreaming]

Re: Taylorcraft Instruction Advice.

First off you will find the Taylorcraft is a nicer flying airplane. I did almost the same thing with someone in a Luscombe, except not on a short runway. We did do it on pavement, and I think that is worse. I have been giving my sons training in my father's 41 BC12-65, but it does have right hand brakes. Not having the brakes shouldn't be a problem though. I would try and find a longer runway to start out on if you have one close.

[JamesJackson737]

Re: Taylorcraft Instruction Advice.

Thanks for the response, no you're right we start out on a 2,500 plus foot runway. Any one have suggestions on approach speeds, climb speed and stall speed? (I'm obviously going to stall the airplane for myself on my first flight.

Regards,

James Goodnight

[Robert Lees]

Re: Taylorcraft Instruction Advice.

Hi James,

Welcome to our Taylorcraft site. If you are familiar with Cubs, get on the insurance and fly the Taylorcraft yourself from the LHS solo before moving to the right. They're similar but different!

Rob

[3Dreaming]

Re: Taylorcraft Instruction Advice.

If it still has the small trim tab it will only trim to about 70 full nose up, and that is to fast. With my son I try and get him to slow it to between 60 and 65. Our airplane stalls at 45 indicated. My style of flying is to start the round out before getting into ground effect, and that helps with the float. If you fly it down to the runway and then round out you will float a long way. The pre war Taylorcraft is one of the nicest slipping airplanes. You can slip it right down to the flare if you want. If the airplane is straight, true, and rigged well it doesn't have any bad habits. Like Rob said go fly it some, and have fun.

[PA1195]

Re: Taylorcraft Instruction Advice.

If you watch airspeed instead of sight and sound then make sure it's a sealed pitot line and holds indicated after slight pressure input. Put a rubber hose on the pitot and fold it up to raise the needle and look for leaks. Mine stalls at 45 IAS low power, but lower with power and AOA from VG's.

I trim my '41 full nose up then I use roughly use 1.4-5 Vso for Vy climb and initial pattern work (~65-68), 1.3 then 1.2 for approach (~60 > ~55). If I can still see over the nose close to the runway even slower but without added AOA the Taylorcraft airfoil is not a Cub's, especially one with flaps than can be landed in the low 40's/upper 30's.

Go do a stall series and remember the rudder is your best friend in a Taylorcraft.

Gary

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: Taylorcraft Instruction Advice.

The rudder isn't your friend in a T, it is your BOSS! You can fly all day without ailerons but you will just flop around like a drunk without rudder. It is a STRONG rudder plane!

I do not agree that a Taylorcraft floats. Mine sure doesn't, UNLESS I am 5 mph fast on short final, then she won't land at Edwards AFB long runway. If you are floating, you are fast. PRACTICE slow flight at altitude and feel how the ailerons turn to mush and make you think you are right on the edge of a stall....when you aren't (if you DO stall, remember the rudder is BOSS, not the ailerons). The ailerons get a lot of slop at low speed and rudder is your friend to lift a wing. It is a sweet flying plane and very predictable, but is NOT a Cub. I would NEVER suggest making first landings on a short runway. Once you know the sight picture (ASI is a waste of time on short final, use the sight picture) you can grease her on very short, but practice with several mistakes worth of room ahead of you before you do a short field for real.

Probably telling you lots of things you already know, but we don't like bending planes OR tribe members! Stay safe! We would like to keep you around.

[PA1195]

Re: Taylorcraft Instruction Advice.

Well written Hank!

My time in a both T's I've owned is limited compared with most here and it's definitely different than the C-185, Citabrias, and Cubs that I have most of my flight time in. Flaps are an attitude changer and manager and working the T's wing with first trim then elevator to control lift takes some learning.

I first had a flapless and then flapped Citabria, plus flew the Pipers (PA-11, 12, and 18's) both with and without flaps. Not having trim effective to or close to stall on the T, or balanced elevators, means elevator deflection effort increases more than the other aircraft for me, even an unbalanced Cub elevator. The unbalanced Cubs can be trimmed for that slow flight regime if desired via their effective stabilizer trim. If I had my way T's would have larger trim area but that's only because it's my preferred way of establishing a stabilized approach to landing or climb.

The reason I mention this is thought for James to explore slow flight and control response which may be different than he's familiar with.

I'd also like to have two airspeeds...one in the panel for the TCDS and another in my line of sight on top and forward with a low speed range expansion...dual fed off the same pitot. I like to maintain a sight picture out of the cockpit of the landing environment (sound input helps - take off the headset), but referencing a visible airspeed in the line of sight might be an aid especially on floats where speed for takeoff is critical.

Gary

[astjp2]

Re: Taylorcraft Instruction Advice.

I do air work, lots of air work when I get back into flying for the season. Brakes are not necessary if you fly the airplane right. You can cross control the ailerons and hard rudder input will hold the wings level and the airplane will make a complete turn! Freaks people out when I do a flat turn with the...especially pilots because they are used to banking to make a turn.. I can easily make an 800' strip with a little practice. Tim

[PA1195]

Re: Taylorcraft Instruction Advice.

Slight drift here...lacking a larger more effective trim piece how about adding a Gurney flap (http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc...=rep1&type=pdf) to the trailing edge of the existing trim to increase authority?

Gary

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: Taylorcraft Instruction Advice.

I would be careful with that (adding Gurney flaps). You are making a design change to a flight control and the Feds aren't going to use logic when looking at that kind of mod, they are just going to tear you a new one. Make sure it is approved and signed off before you modify the control system! And yes, I am familiar with Gurney flaps and how effective and safe they are. I am also familiar with how those in charge may NOT be familiar at all and will just go for an adverse enforcement. Changing the trim system could very well require a full flight test to prove you have not changed the flutter characteristics and control forces from the certified design.

[PA1195]

Re: Taylorcraft Instruction Advice.

I'd call and ask permission...probably not a metal angle tho. Just add a strip of 3/16-1/4" self adhesive P-tape foam strip to the bottom rear to see if nose up trim authority can be temporarily improved. Alternatively installing an enlarged F-19 trim might also help. Unlike some designs given the early design's small size I suspect the Taylorcraft's trim was just developed as a minor inflight aid in maintaining level flight. They probably realized later that more trim authority was desired and enlarged the component.

Anyway I hope the OP James has a chance to test and train in a T and offers a post-event report.

Gary

[3Dreaming]

Re: Taylorcraft Instruction Advice.

I don't think the F-19 trim system is any different than the BC12-D. The trim was enlarged after the B*12-65 model. I think you could simply replace the left side horizontal and elevator with that from a BC12-D. No other changes needed.

[PA1195]

Re: Taylorcraft Instruction Advice.

I don't think the F-19 trim system is any different than the BC12-D. The trim was enlarged after the B*12-65 model. I think you could simply replace the left side horizontal and elevator with that from a BC12-D. No other changes needed.

Yes that'd be the best and a proven design. I wonder if the 3-hinge elevator's trim can be enlarged to duplicate the larger trim unit style? Do whatever it takes to the trailing edge of the elevator and original trim. The only two I've noticed are the small like mine and large trim like the F-19's. Then there are the small flying wings even earlier.

Edit: The Post War prints show the elevator with large trim as P/N B12-A416 so it appears the enlarged design preceeded the F-19's.

Sorry for the drift...just got to thinking while waiting for a test flight report by the OP.

Gary

[3Dreaming]

Re: Taylorcraft Instruction Advice.

Yes that'd be the best and a proven design. I wonder if the 3-hinge elevator's trim can be enlarged to duplicate the larger trim unit style? Do whatever it takes to the trailing edge of the elevator and original trim. The only two I've noticed are the small like mine and large trim like the F-19's. Then there are the small flying wings even earlier.

Edit: The Post War prints show the elevator with large trim as P/N B12-A416 so it appears the enlarged design preceeded the F-19's.

Sorry for the drift...just got to thinking while waiting for a test flight report by the OP.

Gary

Rather than modify the elevator simply switch to a 2 hinge horizontal and elevator. If you had the parts ready it should only take about an hour to do the switch. likely no modification, simply bolt on. You might have to re-drill the stabilizer bolt holes.