A strange thought

[flyguy]

Have no idea where this came from, but as I was reading a thread here I thought:

Wonder what would happen if there was a mechanism on a BC12D that would force the doors open just as you get into the part of the flare where you are scooting along about 3 feet off the ground and the darn plane will not sink (like damn near everything else that I have flown does)?

A little drag goes a long way, for example, my landings in a left cross wind are a lot better than in no cross wind conditions (think drag from left slip).

DC

[Dick Smith]

Re: A strange thought

Although not a common practice, opening the doors during "slide out", while coming to a stop on skiis, has been used here in Alaska. When you are on wet ice, you will often think you are accelerating after touchdown on skiis or tires. A friend and I have opened the doors at as close to a 90 degree angle as possible, while watching the shoreline approach at a very disconcerting rate! There is a considerable amount of drag created by the "poor mans speedbrake". Imagine riding a bike as fast as you can pedal and suddenly have a piece of plywood with the area of 2 Taylorcraft doors suddenly pop out...! You will notice it. We also sometimes use the open doors to assist while "sailing" a floatplane, as you can alter the wind effects, both in sum and differentially. Dick

[Robert Lees]

Re: A strange thought

In a C150, opening the RH door with your right foot assists getting out of an inadvertent inverted spin, so I am led to believe .

[Garry Crookham]

Re: A strange thought

As a hotshot teenage pilot flying my father's Taylorcraft I found that opening a door in flight would yaw the airplane so naturally it progressed to try to open both doors. Pushing both doors open as far as possible resulted in the airplane pitching down beyond vertical. Luckily I had lots of altitude. 53 years later I am thankful I survived those teenage years!

[lynnlpitts]

Re: A strange thought

As a hotshot teenage pilot flying my father's Taylorcraft I found that opening a door in flight would yaw the airplane so naturally it progressed to try to open both doors. Pushing both doors open as far as possible resulted in the airplane pitching down beyond vertical. Luckily I had lots of altitude. 53 years later I am thankful I survived those teenage years!

Years ago, I rebuilt a BC-12D N43213...My friend Darryl Coit and I would practice short field landings by the hour and on smooth evenings we would push the doors open just above the flare to make some impressive landings...I have an F-19 now but it doesn't feel as good as the old 65!

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: A strange thought

Interesting and informative posts on this practice. Here is the one from my logs (long before I owned her).

There were interesting entries about a tear repair to the fuselage passenger side (starboard for you non-lubbers), a damaged RH stab and when I bought her the doors were pretty obviously different ages. Didn't take much investigation to find out the prior owner liked to do the open door routine on landing and on one such stunt the passenger door hinge screws tore out of the door and it departed the aircraft, tearing the fabric on the RH side and damaging the stab. The door was completely toast. Lucky for the owner replacement wood doors were still available at that time. I got confirmation when I rebuilt the doors. They are slightly different under the fabric. When I rebuilt them I replaced the wood screws with machine screws and "T" nuts on both the hinges and the flip out window hinges and latches.

Opening the doors is NOT a smart thing to do!!!! You "might" get away with it, maybe for a while, with metal doors, but seeing how the wood doors are built I would NEVER try it!

Hank

It is nice to know if I ever had to bail out pushing hard enough to get to open would probably cause the door to fail. Of course I don't even own a parachute, so what would be the point?

[N96337]

Re: A strange thought

A friend took me up in his Ercoupe once, and on final (we had the windows down), he had me stick my arm out and down as he did the same....he called it his "flaps"... and down we came, just like you'd stuck a couple notches of flap on.
The guy I bought my Tcraft from took me up with both doors off, and it seemed to fly just fine. It was a beautiful evening, nice and warm and calm... we just floated along the river...a ride I'll never forget! I knew I needed that airplane right there and then!!
John

[flyguy]

Re: A strange thought

As a hotshot teenage pilot flying my father's Taylorcraft I found that opening a door in flight would yaw the airplane so naturally it progressed to try to open both doors. Pushing both doors open as far as possible resulted in the airplane pitching down beyond vertical. Luckily I had lots of altitude. 53 years later I am thankful I survived those teenage years!

That is amazing Garry, but it makes sense. The open doors would wreck the airflow over the horizontal stabilizer and it would not be able to hold the nose up. I pretty sure you are talking about WAY OPEN, not slightly open. I think I just lost all interest in opening doors in flight on the Tcraft.
DC
Note: see tale in humor rants and raves about a case of aerodynamic drag.

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: A strange thought

A friend took me up in his Ercoupe once, and on final (we had the windows down), he had me stick my arm out and down as he did the same....he called it his "flaps"... and down we came, just like you'd stuck a couple notches of flap on.
The guy I bought my Tcraft from took me up with both doors off, and it seemed to fly just fine. It was a beautiful evening, nice and warm and calm... we just floated along the river...a ride I'll never forget! I knew I needed that airplane right there and then!!
John

I think someone had paper saying flying with the doors off was accepted by the factory. Anyone have documentation on taking the doors off? Seems there was a problem with ONE door off since a slip would put a lot of pressure on the fabric in the tail cone.
I am going from memory here so DO NOT take this as saying it is OK!!! Anyone have any paperwork or a reference?

Hank

[Garry Crookham]

Re: A strange thought

At one time there was an advisory circular that listed aircraft that could be operated with one door removed and Taylorcrafts were included. I believe the local FSDO had to be notified and operations limitations issued. Slipping with one door off isn't a problem....if it causes a problem with the fabric in the tail cone you need new fabric! I'll try to find the advisory circular and post it.

[M Towsley]

Re: A strange thought

Hank, all I remember is to remove anything in the baggage sling as it won't be there later if you fly with both doors off. That's all I remember.

[lynnlpitts]

Re: A strange thought

Years ago in the early seventies, I took a skydiver, a fellow counselor I had met at Boy Scout Summer Camp, up in my old BC-12D, N43213. Removed the left door-he had to set side saddle with his feet outside-I was crunched up all the way to the left because of the chute. It barely climbed to 3000 feet AGL; but boy was it pretty watching him sail down on the dinning area grass at camp. I never offered to do this again!

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: A strange thought

Always best to wait for someone who has actual paper to reference. That's why I was saying NOT to go by what I said! I doubt I will ever try it. Could lead to nasty seat stains in a steep turn.

Hank

[3Dreaming]

Re: A strange thought

What I remember is there was a STC for operation with one door removed. No approval for both being removed. I have however ridden in and flown with both removed, and it was not an issue. Even with a slip.

[Robert Lees]

Re: A strange thought

I recall an STC as well, as I remember it was for one door off only.

All I can find is a 337: http://taylorcraft.org/docs/Flying-with-door-off.pdf

Rob