I need an ELT

[3Dreaming]

Re: I need an ELT

Let's hope I can get aeroplane airworthy now.

Rob

Not having the ELT installed does not make the airplane un-airworthy. What you want is the airplane to be legal to fly in the manner you choose. The ELT is required by CFR part 91.207, which does allow for aircraft operation without a ELT installed. If you were to fly it beyond what is allowed by 91.207 you would be in violation, but the airplane would still be airworthy.

All that being said, good choice on the ELT. You can now fly about the states having fun, while being legal. At least with CFR 91.207.

[Robert Lees]

Re: I need an ELT

.....You can now fly about the states having fun, while being legal. At least with CFR 91.207.

The last 150 hours or so I've flown have not been legal (and hence probably uninsured; that was my worry).

Deal with http://www.koerneraviation.com/ at your peril! They do a wonderful engine rebuild too

[Guest]

Re: I need an ELT

LOL!

I went to their website and the theme music is from the move "The Sting".

I guess that makes your point.

Dave

[astjp2]

Re: I need an ELT

I quit insuring my airplane since I have to do the repairs and I fly mostly back country so I am not too worried about other people....

[jstall]

Re: I need an ELT

I thought the 121.5 units were still legal (if useless). If it was me I would buy the cheapest 121.5 unit I could and make sure the battery was within date requirements. Put it in and get it signed off and forget about it till the next annual. If you crash the chances one of our ELTs will actually work are abysmal. If it DOES go off the chances of anyone hearing it are ridiculously small. If someone DOES hear it they will need directional antennas to find you (good luck).
The ELT is a regulatory requirement, so you have to put it in, but in my opinion they are a total waste of payload and time. I still have one. That fulfills the LEGAL requirement. It has NO value for safety. It just makes some minion in the bowels of the FAA building happy.

Since I care about YOUR SAFETY, get a Spot Personal Satellite GPS Messenger, Tracker & Locator. They cost LESS than most ELTs, can be hand carried and allow anyone following your trip to see exactly where you are INCLUDING the spot where your signal ended in case you had a VERY violent arrival. With a Spot they can FIND YOU, which is the whole purpose of the ELT, except it usually doesn't work.

Do what is required to be legal, then do what you NEED TO to be safe. You can't beat stupid from the government, but you can do MORE than they require and take care of yourself while following their rules.

Hank

I'm with Hank on this, however we did find a guy in really bad W/X a few years ago that crashed a CE310 1 mile short of runway in heavy -0-0 fog at midnight we first heard the elt on the airport unicom, then went looking and finally found him 2 hrs later it was way too late but without that elt 121.5 signal we would not have found him at all, till next day. In fact initially it was unclear as to what really had happened, the wife heard him and they a pop that was it, but the grim reality of the situation was then verified when we heard that elt, was very faint but distinct.

JS
Alva, OK

[3Dreaming]

Re: I need an ELT

I'm with Hank on this, however we did find a guy in really bad W/X a few years ago that crashed a CE310 1 mile short of runway in heavy -0-0 fog at midnight we first heard the elt on the airport unicom, then went looking and finally found him 2 hrs later it was way too late but without that elt 121.5 signal we would not have found him at all, till next day. In fact initially it was unclear as to what really had happened, the wife heard him and they a pop that was it, but the grim reality of the situation was then verified when we heard that elt, was very faint but distinct.

JS
Alva, OK

Just to be clear, if I understand correctly with the new 406 ELT's someone would know almost instantly that the ELT was activated. This is quite different than when the old 121.5 ELT's were monitored by satellite. They can narrow down the location to 100 yards, and even closer if you have a GPS source connected to the ELT. In addition they would know what kind of airplane they are looking for, who it belongs to, and they would have contact information.

[Robert Lees]

Re: I need an ELT

I quit insuring my airplane since I have to do the repairs and I fly mostly back country so I am not too worried about other people....

Do you not legally need passenger and third party liability in the USA (irrespective of whether the hull is insured)? If so, then I was uninsured against those liabilities. I think.

Rob

[Guest]

Re: I need an ELT

There is no requirement for aircraft insurance in the USA.

There are airports that require you to have insurance as a condition of renting space at them.

So you will get confused and mixed answers to this question.

[Robert Lees]

Re: I need an ELT

No aircraft 3rd party insurance at all? I'm surprised, given the litigious nature of the US ambulance chasers and the number of lawyers who reside VERY close to Washington DC.

Does for example American Airlines or US Air (or any other carrier), transporting loads of second-party passengers, and potentially colliding with primary schools, puppy farms and nunneries not need insurance against damages ensuing from such a potential collision? Or do they self-insure?

The insurance for my G-reg Taylorcraft here in the UK covers it worldwide (or at least most of it), costs me about $1200 per annum, for a $32,000 hull value and $10M liability, so it's a no-brainer for me to pay that small premium.

Thread drift: Do you need third party or passenger (second party) insurance for motor vehicles (cars etc)?

[Guest]

Re: I need an ELT

At all? I'm surprised.

Thread drift: Do you need third party or passenger (second party) insurance for motor vehicles (cars etc)?

Not at all for airplanes. Just meddling airport landlords require it as I said.

Individual states often require it (liability) for auto/truck/bus/cycle and it varies from state to state. We are an agglomeration of states not a single federal entity.

Dave

more drift - I think that technically an airplane is a motorized vehicle but we normally do not think of it as motor vehicle, rather only auto/truck/bus/cycles

[Guest]

Re: I need an ELT

You changed the subject: "need" and "require" are different discussions.

I addressed only "require" based on original question of "legally need" as I interpreted that as "require".

Also was having general aviation in mind but I think that my answer is correct for all aviation.

[Robert Lees]

Re: I need an ELT

You changed the subject: "need" and "require" are different discussions.

I addressed only "require" based on original question of "legally need" as I interpreted that as "require".

Also was having general aviation in mind but I think that my answer is correct for all aviation.

My mistake; I meant "require", my apologies. In England, these two words are commonly used interchangeably.

[3Dreaming]

Re: I need an ELT

Simply put there is no regulatory requirement for liability insurance on aircraft. If you or your family have any assets that are worth protecting it is probably a good idea to have insurance.

Now for your insurance not being any good you would need to look closely at the policy. Not having the ELT installed does not make the airplane un airworthy. Operating the airplane without the ELT beyond what is allowed in 91.207 could be compared with doing aerobatics with a passenger while not wearing parachutes. In both cases you are operating contrary to the regulations, but in both cases the airplane is still airworthy. IMO since not having the ELT installed doesn't make the airplane un-airworthy, unless the violation of 91.207 was the cause of an accident your insurance should not be affected.

That brings up an other point. When you bought the airplane it was fully legal for the annual to be signed off without the ELT installed, but while not a legal requirement whoever sold you the airplane should have told you that there was no ELT installed. Especially if they knew your planned use of the airplane. That being said, the ultimate responsibility falls on the owner operator, at least that is what the regulations say.

[lfries]

Re: I need an ELT

AVEMCO clains not to play the "gotcha" game.

[M Towsley]

Re: I need an ELT

I liked AVEMCO but they were very expensive. You pay for personalized service and those other benefits.