I'm having it painted....need opinions on cost

[Tom G]

Hello everyone: My airplane definitely is in need of a new paint job. I took it to a shop yesterday morning that is very good and deals strictly with tube and fabric airplanes. I have seen several examples of their work and it is first rate. I was given an indication of $12K to completely disassemble my airplane and repaint it. I would be doing a color change and a new scheme on it. They explained the process to me and it would include rejuvenation of the dope that is on it and then painting over that. I understand this is the way to do it. Again I have no question of the quality of their work and I know that the materials are quite expensive. I was told about 2K would be for materials. Their shop rate is usually $70 per hour but would go to $55 on a job like this. I would just like to get some opinions since this is the first place I've gone to but feel good about them and have heard good things about their work. Also, my fabric is ceconite from the late nineties and checked fine. I'm in New Jersey, if anyone has any recommendations on another shop to talk to please let me know. Thanks!!

[Mark Bowden]

Re: I'm having it painted....need opinions on cost

Hi,
It would be hard for anyone to comment without knowing what your plan is for color scheme and stripes. That can drive the price.
Also, what is there plan for removing the old top color finish coats?
Mark

[astjp2]

Re: I'm having it painted....need opinions on cost

At that point I would just do a recover, then you can fix all of the hidden problems. Tim

[Tom G]

Re: I'm having it painted....need opinions on cost

When I told him i wanted the color change that didn't seem to make any real difference to him. As far as the color scheme is concerned i'm talking about ivory with red or blue trim. A simple stripe down the side with the wing and tail leading edges the trim color. I want the standard 12 inch numbers on the side of the fuselage. As far as the old top color is concerned im not sure how the rejuvinator works but i don't think its necessary to remove the old top color.

I really don't want to do a recover as the airplane was totally restored in the nineties, the structure was totally gone through and repaired where necessary and remains in excellent shape. I know the history of this plane since its been in our family since 1964. The paint that was put on the airplane after the restoration never did it justice since it was done by another party after the person who did the restoration work died. Its always looked like a washed out yellow and i'm tired of looking at it that way. I'm also tired of people thinking its a Cub! The airplane deserves better and the time has come.

[Bigdog]

Re: I'm having it painted....need opinions on cost

$12K is an awful lot for a sand and paint. Rejuvenation implies that both the finish and base coats are dope. Do you know that for certain? Rejuvenation is pretty simple, spray it on and let it melt into the old finish. Then sand, touchup and refinish. It won't look as good as a recover and won't last as long. If it's not dope then there's a lot of work (or should be) to prep and the results IMHO are likely not as good or lasting as rejuvenating dope. Your covering is already 20 years old with 20 years of corrosion under it and you're looking at putting over half the value of the plane in a top coat. If you don't recover then I'd certainly look for a lower cost option or provider.

[Tom G]

Re: I'm having it painted....need opinions on cost

Thanks Greg, you bring up some good points. I do know for certain that the finish coats on the fabric now are dope. The structure is in good shape as well as its been inside most of the time since the recover was done. When it was outside it was totally covered. I will look at some other providers for options. There must be some good tube and fabric paint shops in my part of the country.

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: I'm having it painted....need opinions on cost

I think I have to agree with Tim Popp. I did a refinish on my 41 and have really regretted not doing it "all the way". There was as much labor in getting the old fabric prepped right as there would have been to put new fabric on (actually much more as it turned out). The materials cost difference ended up being only the fabric itself and adhesive. The finish is NOT as good as a recover and as several have said, you never know what is under that old fabric.
If I was doing it again I wouldn't hesitate an instant to do a recover over a refinish.

Hank

Have to add that if I wasn't so anal retentive there probably wouldn't have been so much labor in fabric prep.

[N96337]

Re: I'm having it painted....need opinions on cost

Yep, I'm going to agree with Tim and Hank. I've seen lots of people waste their time and money on 20 year old fabric....it's sad to watch. Another thing I'm a huge promoter of is to go to a system that is fire proof. I've seen people (and lost a good friend) that died in a wreck, not because of any injury that was sustained in the wreck, but because of the ensuing fire because of the dope finish. If you don't believe it, take a sample of your finished fabric and hold a match to it.....
I'd say it's a total waste of money to just repaint. If you were just rejuvenating, that would be a different story..
John

[Tom G]

Re: I'm having it painted....need opinions on cost

You guys really have me thinking and I really appreciate your thoughts on this. A recover never really entered my mind especially since my Dad recovered the airplane with Ceconite in 1966 and when it was removed in 1993 the fabric itself was still good. Obviously the fabric itself is not the only concern. Way back in the old days with linen or cotton i guess the fabric didnt last long enough to raise any concerns about the condition of the structure underneath it. You've made it clear to me that $12K for a refinish on the old fabric does not make any sense. I'm wondering how much a recover would be. Somehow i always had a figure of around $15K for that. I need to keep costs reasonable so I'm going to do some checking around. My first solo flight in this plane was on June 23, 1967 at 16 and I'm determined to that its going to look outstanding for the 50th anniversary of that flight. I've got some time for that! On a different note what do you think of Oratex that German fabric that comes in colors and needs no coatings at all. I've been reading about it and it sounds quite impressive. I've got some thinking and detective work to do! Thanks again guys.

[astjp2]

Re: I'm having it painted....need opinions on cost

Stitts, proven and affordable. Figure about 4.5K for the materials. Labor is what the major costs are. Tim

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: I'm having it painted....need opinions on cost

Check with Chuck. He has done a lot of study on the Stewarts system and recovered a Stinson 108 with it recently.

Hank

[Mark Bowden]

Re: I'm having it painted....need opinions on cost

I don't think that the Oratex is certified (STC) in the USA yet, you should call them to see for sure.

It would save paint weight if you were ok with the finish as is. You might be able to 337 it given it has certification in Europe and Canada. Might ask Rob about it, it does seem to be quite an impressive product.

Mark

[N96337]

Re: I'm having it painted....need opinions on cost

Oratex isn't approved in the USA yet, and I don't look for it to be for a while. Polyfiber and Stewarts are the two that I recommend, with Stewarts edging out Polyfiber for health and flexibility reasons.
You'll be about $5000 for materials on either system. The rest of the cost is labor, and if you find an IA you can work with, you'll save a tremendous amount of money and learn a whole bunch about your airplane! Your $15,000 estimate isn't too far out of line if you just take it somewhere and drop it off.
John

[Tom G]

Re: I'm having it painted....need opinions on cost

I think you are right Mark i don't think its FAA certified yet. And thanks Hank i will look into the stewarts system as well. Lots to consider for sure! Especially since i never even thought about a recover!

[Tom G]

Re: I'm having it painted....need opinions on cost

and Stitts as well. Thanks Tim.