Wheelpants for '41 Deluxe

[James B. Neely]

New to the forum. Have read past threads, although nothing has been posted for awhile. Are there any new developments on wheelpants for a restored 41 Deluxe. Will need mounting hardware as well. Looking for originals if anyone has a good set available. If not, want as close a representaive pair as I can find to complete a restoration.

Thank you.

[Pearson]

Re: Wheelpants for '41 Deluxe

There was a discussion about the wheel pants mounting hardware not too long ago. You might try doing a search on the blue bar above.

From what I have seen, the original wheel pants are getting scarce. I can't tell you where to look other than keep doing a search on Ebay and checking Barnstormers.

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: Wheelpants for '41 Deluxe

I think that those of us who have original hardware are in a hard spot. Either the mounts are cracked, broken or we have them but don't trust them enough to use them in flight. I HAVE a set of originals, but they are cast aluminum and frankly I wouldn't use them or sell them to anyone else who wanted to. I have a set of WELDED brackets that are solid, well designed and ugly as sin.
What I would LIKE to do is make a new set of welded brackets and mold them inside a resin layer so they could be painted to "look" like originals, but be as strong as the steel ones. That is on my "list" but don't hold your breath. I have a lot of items on the list to get flying again, and the cosmetic stuff is no where close to the top.
When I have my plane flying there are a lot of little goodies I want to make, but getting the new wing struts back so I can put the wings back on comes first.
Hank

Little hint for those who are doing restoration work close to the coast. DON'T store your struts flat! Condensation will corrode the insides! I just had to buy 4 new struts from Wag!

[Ragwing nut]

Re: Wheelpants for '41 Deluxe

If I could get the brackets CNC'd, how many would be interested? I could not do one or two, it would have to be 10+ sets to even consider it

[James B. Neely]

Re: Wheelpants for '41 Deluxe

Ragwing Nut. I'd be interested in a set. Please keep my contact info. and advise if you decide to move forward on the project.

Regarding modern replacement wheelpants, is there anyone with recent experience?

[Pearson]

Re: Wheelpants for '41 Deluxe

Mike,

I don't know if you have your own CNC or some other situation. But, as you probably know, water jet cutting is usually cheaper. The tolerances aren't as close as CNC, but certainly close enough for a part like this.

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: Wheelpants for '41 Deluxe

How are you set for an example to copy? Do you have Card-x to get the NC contours or do you need drawings? Steel or aluminum? The originals look like cast aluminum (a large flock of cracks in close formation) so a machined billet part would be a lot stronger if the grain can be worked out. Steel would eliminate any doubt and fairly low strength would work fine.
If you decide to move ahead get a commitment for the prototypes and TRACK YOUR COSTS! I can tell you from experience, you can loose money really easy making parts if you don't know how much you are spending. If you want to recover your labor cost you might as well quit now, you have to donate that part, but you should at least make sure you don't LOOSE money on the parts. About half the guys who answer up to get a set now will stay with you to the end and the rest will come from those who jump in when they hear the cost (which will probably need to go up). Some will drop off and new ones will come on. I lost a bundle on the compass logos and broke (barely) even on the "DO NOT EXCEED 140 MPH" placards. The drawings make less than a dollar each and I figure if I keep making placards I will come out even eventually and I have placards for my plane I could have never afforded if I had to make one of each.
It's WORTH it (for you and the rest of us) if you can recover your non-recurring costs. It is really great to have so many of us get the placards or parts we need and has been worth every dime I put in. The extra cost I have paid would have been eaten up just in the compass logo if I had just made one for myself.
One thing you do need to consider is if we get these parts we need to make them "legal". Let's get together and I can show you how to make sure the buyer does enough of the work to insure the buyer becomes the designer, manufacturer or QA.
Hank

[Ragwing nut]

Re: Wheelpants for '41 Deluxe

Mike,

I don't know if you have your own CNC or some other situation. But, as you probably know, water jet cutting is usually cheaper. The tolerances aren't as close as CNC, but certainly close enough for a part like this.

original brackets are not the flat welded stuff wag aero sells. it is a casting. I would not even bother making the flat plate brackets

[Ragwing nut]

Re: Wheelpants for '41 Deluxe

How are you set for an example to copy? Do you have Card-x to get the NC contours or do you need drawings? Steel or aluminum? The originals look like cast aluminum (a large flock of cracks in close formation) so a machined billet part would be a lot stronger if the grain can be worked out. Steel would eliminate any doubt and fairly low strength would work fine.
If you decide to move ahead get a commitment for the prototypes and TRACK YOUR COSTS! I can tell you from experience, you can loose money really easy making parts if you don't know how much you are spending. If you want to recover your labor cost you might as well quit now, you have to donate that part, but you should at least make sure you don't LOOSE money on the parts. About half the guys who answer up to get a set now will stay with you to the end and the rest will come from those who jump in when they hear the cost (which will probably need to go up). Some will drop off and new ones will come on. I lost a bundle on the compass logos and broke (barely) even on the "DO NOT EXCEED 140 MPH" placards. The drawings make less than a dollar each and I figure if I keep making placards I will come out even eventually and I have placards for my plane I could have never afforded if I had to make one of each.
It's WORTH it (for you and the rest of us) if you can recover your non-recurring costs. It is really great to have so many of us get the placards or parts we need and has been worth every dime I put in. The extra cost I have paid would have been eaten up just in the compass logo if I had just made one for myself.
One thing you do need to consider is if we get these parts we need to make them "legal". Let's get together and I can show you how to make sure the buyer does enough of the work to insure the buyer becomes the designer, manufacturer or QA.
Hank

I have a couple goods ones for patterns. My CNC guy has a 3d image scanner and rapid prototyping program so I could have the brackets imaged mapped in a matter of hours. It would probably take him a couple days to develop a cut program so my r&d costs should not be too bad. That is why I mentioned at least a minimum of 10 sets to consider making them

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: Wheelpants for '41 Deluxe

Sounds like you are on the way for making the mount brackets. I have a set of original 41 pants that are apart for straightening. Anyone interested in making a buck to make copies? I can draw the interior parts and get contours for a buck but we need someone who has some metal bumping experiance or even better someone with access to a hydraforming machine who wants to make a Kirksite form.
Hank

[Ragwing nut]

Re: Wheelpants for '41 Deluxe

Sounds like you are on the way for making the mount brackets. I have a set of original 41 pants that are apart for straightening. Anyone interested in making a buck to make copies? I can draw the interior parts and get contours for a buck but we need someone who has some metal bumping experiance or even better someone with access to a hydraforming machine who wants to make a Kirksite form.
Hank

Hydrofrom machine won't work as those are usually used for forming frame rails. They would need to be stamped, but I doubt you would ever sell enough to even pay for the molds. I would expect the molds to be in excess of 10K. By the time you wire rolled the bottom, assembled them, they would need to sell for 2000-2500 a set. Lets not forget another 10-20k for pma approval on the cheap side

[bashibazouk]

Re: Wheelpants for '41 Deluxe

Bondo mold and flow-forming tool on a rivet gun for low cost and low volume production?

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: Wheelpants for '41 Deluxe

That's how some of the WW-I guys make their cowls. If you are gentle you might even get a few pants off the molds before the Bondo comes apart.
We used to make some pretty deep draws with the hydraform and I think the one we had could have made a wheel pant, bit you are correct that we could NEVER recover the cost of the mold. I think we are stuck with fiberglass, repairing an original or hand making them from flat sheet with hammers, shot bag and an English wheel.
It CAN be done by hand, but I don't want another set bad enough to do that much work. I have one set and can move them from one plane to the other if I really want them to fly.
Offer stands for anyone who wants to make a set. I can provide what's needed to make a buck, but you get to do the metal beating.
Hank

The form you hammer the metal to fit is called a "buck", I don't mean a dollar!

[Pearson]

Re: Wheelpants for '41 Deluxe

Hydrofrom machine won't work as those are usually used for forming frame rails. They would need to be stamped, but I doubt you would ever sell enough to even pay for the molds. I would expect the molds to be in excess of 10K.

Mike I am not sure what you mean about hydroforming not working for making wheel pants. Many other parts besides frame rails are made using hydroforming. In fact, with todays technology they might even be able to make a wheel pant in one piece. But I am sure everyone would want the seam down the middle, so it would probably be easier to form each half separately and then weld them together. The end user could have them welded together to help satisfy the owner produce part requirements.

[3Dreaming]

Re: Wheelpants for '41 Deluxe

Mike I am not sure what you mean about hydroforming not working for making wheel pants. Many other parts besides frame rails are made using hydroforming. In fact, with todays technology they might even be able to make a wheel pant in one piece. But I am sure everyone would want the seam down the middle, so it would probably be easier to form each half separately and then weld them together. The end user could have them welded together to help satisfy the owner produce part requirements.

They were not welded, they had like a french folded seam.