In search of original wing wire clips (update Jan 2026 see page 7 and later)

[3Dreaming]

From memory it takes 220 feet to do both wings. I just measured and come up with 106 per wing, so memory seems correct. Now this could be effected by the length of sections of the wire. It takes 12 sections 55" long, and 16 38" long per wing. I would take enough for two wings.

[Jim Herpst]

From memory it takes 220 feet to do both wings. I just measured and come up with 106 per wing, so memory seems correct. Now this could be effected by the length of sections of the wire. It takes 12 sections 55" long, and 16 38" long per wing. I would take enough for two wings.

Thank you Mr Baker. I thought 200 was a number used in the past...sounds a little shy based on your and my (admission of VERY cursory rough gauge in walking by the wing. )

I will also sign up enough for two wings plus at 250 feet total

[Mark Bowden]

Another piece of the puzzle would be who owns the tooling, both physical hard fixtures and soft tooling, machine code, design, etc...
It should be established before things get kicked off.

[Jim Herpst]

Another piece of the puzzle would be who owns the tooling, both physical hard fixtures and soft tooling, machine code, design, etc...
It should be established before things get kicked off.

Good points!

[kevinbrooker]

I met with the bending company today. The engineers were super excited when I brought them a rib so they were able to see what the clip is used for. Turns out, making the bends is really simple with a 4-slide machine. The rub is having long runs. Most 4 slide parts are small and cut off after bending. The wing wire needs to be a long run which will not just drop out after being bent and cut off. They are figuring out how to make long coils. Fir pricing I asked for 100'/200' and 300' rolls. They are pretty confident they can figure out a solution. They did show me the CAD model of the tooling and how the wire is formed. What's also interesting is once thy figure out how to get the wire off the machine and into a roll it is relatively simple to change the spacing between the individual clips. Need 7.15/16" spacing? just ask. They can make it shorter than the 3" and make custom runs too.

[Jim Herpst]

I met with the bending company today. The engineers were super excited when I brought them a rib so they were able to see what the clip is used for. Turns out, making the bends is really simple with a 4-slide machine. The rub is having long runs. Most 4 slide parts are small and cut off after bending. The wing wire needs to be a long run which will not just drop out after being bent and cut off. They are figuring out how to make long coils. Fir pricing I asked for 100'/200' and 300' rolls. They are pretty confident they can figure out a solution. They did show me the CAD model of the tooling and how the wire is formed. What's also interesting is once thy figure out how to get the wire off the machine and into a roll it is relatively simple to change the spacing between the individual clips. Need 7.15/16" spacing? just ask. They can make it shorter than the 3" and make custom runs too.

Hell they are excited? WE are excited . At long last great job Kevin!!!!

[3Dreaming]

I met with the bending company today. The engineers were super excited when I brought them a rib so they were able to see what the clip is used for. Turns out, making the bends is really simple with a 4-slide machine. The rub is having long runs. Most 4 slide parts are small and cut off after bending. The wing wire needs to be a long run which will not just drop out after being bent and cut off. They are figuring out how to make long coils. Fir pricing I asked for 100'/200' and 300' rolls. They are pretty confident they can figure out a solution. They did show me the CAD model of the tooling and how the wire is formed. What's also interesting is once thy figure out how to get the wire off the machine and into a roll it is relatively simple to change the spacing between the individual clips. Need 7.15/16" spacing? just ask. They can make it shorter than the 3" and make custom runs too.

125' rolls would be ideal. That should be enough to do one wing panel. If shorter lengths are easier for them to manufacture then sections for both long and short ribs would work also.

[kevinbrooker]

The roll length is pretty much wherever they cut it off. Changing the length shouldn't impact the cost except the additional 25' (for a 125' roll) will mean an additional 100 bends. Once the wire comes off the machine the only hassle (which I believe will be another stumbler) is how to roll it onto/into a coil. The raw wire is pulled off a roll and the parts usually drop into a chute to be gravity fed into a box. They have zero experience with getting the continuous wire off of the machine as a one long piece. What has been fun is the engineers and tool makers are excited and interested in finding solutions and not excuses to why this cannot be done. It's not a brand new problem as someone made the wire before them so we all know it can be done. The same outfit has a prototype CNC shop and they are making new rudder and elevator hinges for the pair of Stinson 10a I am restoring. The proto shop is adept and specializes in making a few parts and not tying up machines with production.

Depending upon costs and whatnot the 4 slide can make up parts like the adjusters for Shinn brakes. Anything stamped they can do. Again, more parts means a lesser cost but they don't shy away from small runs of things and seem to enjoy figuring it all out.

[Jim Herpst]

Aileron hinges would be a great run!

[Robert Lees]

125' rolls would be ideal. That should be enough to do one wing panel. If shorter lengths are easier for them to manufacture then sections for both long and short ribs would work also.

They don't need to be in rolls...they can be in 5' lengths by 15 ribs per side per wing = 30 lengths per wing or 60 lengths per aircraft. Add a few lengths to allow for installation errors/mistakes, and say 80 5' lengths per aircraft. Thus easily packaged in a standard cardboard tube. How much does a 5' long tube 6" dia cost to ship?
Even make the wire lengths 6' in case the barbs don't quite match up.
How much does a 6' long tube 6" dia cost to ship? In the UK the delivery cost for 72" fabric rolls delivered FedEx (ground) next day is about GBP 7.5 (say USD10). I know ground has a different distance in the USA.

Let's make it easy.

[3Dreaming]

They don't need to be in rolls...they can be in 5' lengths by 15 ribs per side per wing = 30 lengths per wing or 60 lengths per aircraft. Add a few lengths to allow for installation errors/mistakes, and say 80 5' lengths per aircraft. Thus easily packaged in a standard cardboard tube. How much does a 5' long tube 6" dia cost to ship?
Even make the wire lengths 6' in case the barbs don't quite match up.
How much does a 6' long tube 6" dia cost to ship? In the UK the delivery cost for 72" fabric rolls delivered FedEx (ground) next day is about GBP 7.5 (say USD10). I know ground has a different distance in the USA.

Let's make it easy.

That's why I said if shorter lengths are easier to manufacture that would be fine also.

[kevinbrooker]

I don't think the length matters too much since the 4 slide is used to pieces shorter than 3" and getting anything longer out of the machine is the hard part. I can ask about cutting it off into 5' lengths. The shipping depends on the weight and volume. Sometimes over a certain length there is a surcharge. No idea what that is. Good things to consider and after e knw we have a problem to solve we can dig in. Things look hopeful but we still don't have any viable wire.

[Robert Lees]

Kevin: may I suggest that the wire maker get some cameras & show how this wire is made?

There are many videos available that show wire springs, clips, etc. But for what is a special order, this wire company might gain some benefit from showing the process.
Rob

[kevinbrooker]

Already on this. One way I keep the Tcraft in the air is freelance aviation writing and an article and video are already pitched.

[Mark Bowden]

Kevin, just back on and saw this post. Great progress. Plus 1 to Rob's short piece suggestion and tube shipping. I'm not sure but I think standard shipping rates go up when a tube is over 6'. As then if falls out of what UPS and FedEx will process. It's why you put struts in PVC tubes and have to go LTLcariers.

But a coil like Martin wire is quite easy to move as well.

Did you give them the 2D and 3D ProEngineer engineering files I posted earlier?