Airpath compass correction instructions.

[Hank Jarrett]

Yes I have, but never the compass. Any instructor conducting a review that did that to me would be invited to step outside. I've had tacho, ASI, Altimeter covered up.

How on earth would you get home with just a sectional if you don't know the direction you are travelling? That's just silly, Hank.

Rob

My instructor did it to me on a cross country but DID NOT cover the compass (never said he covered the compass, but he did cover the heading indicator). A couple of times he shut off ALL electronic nav devices and said "find your way home". Each time I just said "Oh boy! I'm back in the Taylorcraft!" I could point the direction of the nearest three airfields and knew pretty much how long it would take to get there for each. He stopped doing it. Said it wasn't proving anything any more. Situational awareness is KNOWING where you are and using the nav aids to verify, not following a magenta line. Can't really imagine loosing a mag compass in flight at the same time you loose EVERYTHING else!

On a side note, back in the mid west (Kansas and Nebraska) all of the roads are laid out NS-EW and you really didn't need a compass. The few large roads that weren't on major compass headings made for great landmarks to find your way around. Interstate highways and railroads tended to run from one major city to another. Pretty hard to get lost.

Hank

[PA1195]

Flying with a compass: Still a good primary instrument and backup to other means of navigation. Some compasses are easier to use than others.

Compass repairs: Repair kits are functional and the process is not difficult.

Integrating old vs new piloting: The future is drones and glass. Whether the pilot chooses to use techniques common to both in a conventional airplane is a choice.

Gary

[astjp2]

Tim we know they sell a repair kit for experimentals.

Gary

Yeah Gary, but they do not do the repairs themselves. Tim

[3Dreaming]

My comment wasn't meant to incite a riot but perhaps a periodic question to the applicant might be in order: "Now that your glass panel and navaids are disabled (by fuse or switch) due the lightning hit where are we and how do we get to the nearest airport?" That might make for a meaningful discussion of alternative methods of determining position and orientation to a desired track.

Basic nav techniques remain an important skill: How far have we gone based upon our observed groundspeed and in what direction(s)? (Make them write it down periodically). How soon can we expect to see a landmark on the chart given our groundspeed and in what direction should we see that or them? (To temporarily replace the compass by physical orientation). Mark a planned route on a chart with periodic check points to confirm the path and groundspeed. (Have a pencil handy?) And yes only with a chart-terrain visually confirmed and then the compass. Assume the airspeed and static ports are frozen via covers, and the tach cable broke so learn a throttle position via manifold pressure gauge or throttle control position. Make it a learning experience not another tour de jour.

I've had instructors put me under the hood to practice IFR then remove it and force VFR without all the gadgets. It can happen in real flying so why not prepare?

Gary

I am not disagreeing. I have done a fair bit of training in a light sport with glass panel displays. I have been known to completely dim the screens to get the students eyes outside the airplane. For a fairly new student it is amazing how well they can fly when they don't have all that information to look at. I have even covered analog instruments for the same purpose.

[PA1195]

Tim we know they sell a repair kit for experimentals.

Gary

[astjp2]

Oh by the way, Airpath does not repair compasses, only manufacturers' them. I emailed and asked. Tim

[PA1195]

My comment wasn't meant to incite a riot but perhaps a periodic question to the applicant might be in order: "Now that your glass panel and navaids are disabled (by fuse or switch) due the lightning hit where are we and how do we get to the nearest airport?" That might make for a meaningful discussion of alternative methods of determining position and orientation to a desired track.

Basic nav techniques remain an important skill: How far have we gone based upon our observed groundspeed and in what direction(s)? (Make them write it down periodically). How soon can we expect to see a landmark on the chart given our groundspeed and in what direction should we see that or them? (To temporarily replace the compass by physical orientation). Mark a planned route on a chart with periodic check points to confirm the path and groundspeed. (Have a pencil handy?) And yes only with a chart-terrain visually confirmed and then the compass. Assume the airspeed and static ports are frozen via covers, and the tach cable broke so learn a throttle position via manifold pressure gauge or throttle control position. Make it a learning experience not another tour de jour.

I've had instructors put me under the hood to practice IFR then remove it and force VFR without all the gadgets. It can happen in real flying so why not prepare?

Gary

[3Dreaming]

So yes it's best done over familiar territory but any flight review would have started at a known location unless the pilot was first kidnapped and blindfolded for a bit.

Gary

I think I may have to start doing this when I give a flight review.

[PA1195]

No compass no problem. Day VFR helps. Night makes it more complicated. Where did you start the flight? What direction have you been heading prior to loss of compass and for how long = time and distance or distance made good. Where's the Sun relative to you in your hemisphere? Even on a cloudy day there may be shadows but granted rain and low clouds can obscure solar input. Public transportation corridors form shapes and angles that can be revealing. Terrain and natural features like waterways have shapes and relative locations. I could go on but if you once grasp an idea as to where you are then the chart will indicate what it should like in the direction you choose to travel. Head towards that or keep that off my left wing, etc.

I flew to 71* north and up there on Alaska's north coast the compass was a poor guide. Terrain and natural features were all I had for location. Snow cover and low light or whiteout conditions in winter made that more difficult. Once out of VOR reception there were a few NDB's that could be used to home or track outbound on a course of get a two station cross bearing. So yes it's best done over familiar territory but any flight review would have started at a known location unless the pilot was first kidnapped and blindfolded for a bit.

Gary

[Robert Lees]

Anyone taking a flight review. Never had an instructor cover everything up and hand you a sectional and say, "find your way home"?

Yes I have, but never the compass. Any instructor conducting a review that did that to me would be invited to step outside. I've had tacho, ASI, Altimeter covered up.

How on earth would you get home with just a sectional if you don't know the direction you are travelling? That's just silly, Hank.

Rob

[PA1195]

I've flown over terrain for 45 years in Alaska. Mostly VFR but some IFR as well. The compass or it's direction transferred to a gyro was part of the flight following procedure used to verify that the ground features nearby matched the charts. Terrain makes it easy to locate and follow a route. The two times I flew in the Lower 48 as soon as I got over flat land it bothered me and the compass plus navaids became my friends. So yes I still use one.

Now....riding with the current grads of the glass panel class I wonder what they'll do when the GPS constellation or onboard gadgets fail to guide? Three GPS units in one friends plane all supported by electronic situation displays. Another took an instrument rating recently and remarked how hard it must have been to fly a non-RNAV approach without vertical guidance. They learn to follow the GPS' display and keep the little plane in the box.

So here's the dilemma....while VFR eyes in the cockpit on the glass panel, sometimes glance out to check the weather and scan for traffic, but do they really know where they are? Especially if flying nap of the earth in low weather for the first time?

I hope the electrons keep holding hands for them. A compass is always there if needed.

Gary

[waltermrich]

My flight training was similar , I had a flight instructor , older man with some 25000 hours of flight who used always to say, keep your head out the window, seems like that would be more where you gain situational awareness, not depending so much on electronics that seems to be the trend.

[Hank Jarrett]

Anyone taking a flight review. Never had an instructor cover everything up and hand you a sectional and say, "find your way home"?

[Robert Lees]

Who looks at a compass these days?

[astjp2]

Recently NOAA scientist have said that the magnetic north pole has moved more than 30 mile to the west, typically the pole will move some over one year but it has made a rapid movement over the last year and has caused some problems for navigation for aircraft and the military. They are not certain what may happen in the future.

What way is west, when every way from the north pole is SOUTH?