F19 Exhaust and Heat

[Fjquast]

Hello, I'm new to the forum and new to the Taylorcraft world of flying. I own a 79 F19 Sportsman and browsing this forum has allowed me to answer many of my questions.

It is starting to get colder out and I'm seeking a bit of advice as it comes to heat. I read several posts and have seen the C150 and Luscombe modifications and I would like to avoid these investments in year one if possible. In addition, it has a newer exhaust and I would like to avoid redoing it if possible. This airplane will be put on skis and flown in the winter.

My current exhaust setup runs down to a single exhaust pipe. The heat is only tapped into the right side exhaust and then runs back to heat box into the aircraft. I'm wondering if anyone could share pictures of their setup or confirm if this is the standard setup. I would think if both sides of the exhaust had heat runs into a Y on the heat box it would get a bit more heat into the cockpit.

I appreciate any feedback and stepping stone ideas before going down the road to an all new C150 setup.

I will share pictures of my setup in the next day or two, but I left without snapping some pictures.

F

[astjp2]

Alaskan's used that system for years, where are you located?

[Robert Lees]

Hello F, and welcome to the Taylorcraft forum. We're quite informal here; I'm Rob.

What F19 to you fly, and from where?

[Fjquast]

I fly F19 serial number 118 out of a central Minnesota private strip making it easier to run skis in the winter as long as the snow conditions are reasonable.

I'm just trying to take care of some worklist items this fall before it gets too cold and from what I've heard about in person and read on this Forum the F19 heating system has a bit to be desired. I think someone commented on here that at zero degrees they might get the cockpit temperature up to 30 degrees. My thought is if there was an incremental improvement or two I could do to the heating system this fall without going to a new install with C150 that would be great. My mechanic told me to ask around and if anyone had a few picture he would take a look and see what we can do.

As I mentioned above I have a single exhaust and the heat shroud runs only on the right side to the heat box. My thought or ask to everyone on this forum was is this typical? and if so, and you wanted more heat could you just tap into the left side and "Y" it at the heat box to try and introduce more heat. My Father runs a Hanlon-Wilson heater on his 46 Chief and on many days his jacket is unzipped in the winter

Thanks again for the responses and I will take some pictures tomorrow of what I have.

Thanks,
Felix

[PA1195]

Welcome Felix to the Forum. Yes doubling the heat muffs will help plus any extra air you can force into it will improve overall air flow. Some have wrapped annealed door springs around the pipe under the muff covers to pick up more heat. Check with your mechanic first. I've had success by hanging a curtain behind the seat from upper tubing to the floor of the baggage area. That can seal off colder air behind and underneath you. Also consider instead of running a Y from two muffs, run one hose to the firewall to a shutoff box then on to a piece of 2" SCAT hose long enough to use as a defroster and local heat source. Seal door and fuselage leaks of course plus cover the air vent to the oil sump in front of the cowl and you will have a fine plane down to -20F or colder.

Gary

[Taylorcrafty]

Duct taping the cowl openings to maintain 180F oil temp as it gets colder helped my cabin heat a lot.

Sealing air leaks.

I was thinking about installing one of these before I switched to a C150 exhaust. https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catal...at05-15249.php
Looks like a nice product. Basically it would be a better version of annealed door springs.

For those of you that used the 2nd heat shroud for cabin heat, how did you address carb heat?

[PA1195]

On my C-150 exhaust on a C-85 the right can feeds carb heat, the left cabin heat. For the right can I installed a 2" "Y" to feed both the carb air box with hot air and a cable open-close valve on the firewall. The 2" SCAT defroster hose attaches to an extended lip inside the cockpit. We placarded the defroster cable "Closed for carb heat" even though there's always flow to and through the carb air box with the cabin heater enabled. In summer when cabin heat isn't needed but carb heat is I cap off the "Y" outlet to the cabin.

Gary

[Taylorcrafty]

So, to be clear Gary, you left the bottom outlet of the carb airbox open? But you still get some good defroster heat from it?

I may have to try this. I guess it ends up being equivalent to the atlee dodge rear seat heat kit for a cub.

[Fjquast]

Gary / Taylorcrafty,

Thanks for the suggestions! Sorry for not responding but it took me a few days to get the exhaust pictures. I was a bit wrong in my previous statements. The "cabin heat" is tapped into the left muffs and the right muff supplies supplies the carb heat as Gary mentioned.

Taylorcrafty, was your thoughts to order the "Turbo Heat Cabin Heat Muff" from the link you supplied above and just replace the left muff? Just order it to length so it is similar to the original one already installed?

Gary, I've supplied some pics of my setup I'm curious how you did the "Y" from the outlet going to the carb heat. I'm also curious how you went through the firewall? Another Heat box? I would think if you went with the annealed springs in the muff that the additional heat would be enough for cabin and carb, or shutoff cabin during landing.

I have uploaded two pictures of my current heating / exhaust setup.

[PA1195]

Yes the carb heat box requires constant flow through to prevent icing of the flapper and a specified temperature rise to the unheated air. So, when the heated air flow through "Y" is enabled or not to the cockpit that happens. Obviously the flow is reduced to both the cockpit and the airbox if some is going to the cockpit....that's why the placard "close for carb heat". However it's enough to defrost the plastic and warm hands and feet. I make a metal hook and hang the SCAT end on the windshield brace so it can flow forward to defrost w/o having to handle it all the time.

One way to improve flow for both heaters is to have two air inlets from the cylinder baffling...one for the left and another for the right muff. Taylorcraft and others often put them in front to source ram air but if one or more are put in the rear baffling the incoming air can get preheated flowing over the cylinders and have good pressure if the baffling sealing is tight. Currently mine are fed as Taylorcraft designed but I've had other planes with them fed at the rear baffles.

Gary

[PA1195]

Gary / Taylorcrafty,

Thanks for the suggestions! Sorry for not responding but it took me a few days to get the exhaust pictures. I was a bit wrong in my previous statements. The "cabin heat" is tapped into the left muffs and the right muff supplies supplies the carb heat as Gary mentioned.

Taylorcrafty, was your thoughts to order the "Turbo Heat Cabin Heat Muff" from the link you supplied above and just replace the left muff? Just order it to length so it is similar to the original one already installed?

Gary, I've supplied some pics of my setup I'm curious how you did the "Y" from the outlet going to the carb heat. I'm also curious how you went through the firewall? Another Heat box? I would think if you went with the annealed springs in the muff that the additional heat would be enough for cabin and carb, or shutoff cabin during landing.

I have uploaded two pictures of my current heating / exhaust setup.

The "Y" gets inserted in the red SCAT to the carb heat box. The inlet to the "Y" goes at the single bottom and then one branch continues on to the carb heat box while the other goes to a new shutoff capable airbox on the firewall in my case. Some airboxes are just a straight passthrough while some are designed to dump hot air if not needed. I use the straight passthrough design so I can get full carb heat when the extra cabin heat is closed per my placard.

I'll take some pics of my setup.

Gary

[Fjquast]

Gary, do you have a picture of how you did the "Y" on the right side (carb heat). Also, in reading your previous post. The 2" SCAT from right side is to a second shutoff box and does not tie into the existing heat from left side. Would you have a picture of where you connected this on the firewall?

Also, we run this oil cover on the Chief and I will run a similar one on the TC. This is aided by running an electric oil plan heater an hour plus before preflight / takeoff.

https://www.wagaero.com/engine-parts/oil-system-accessories/covers-dipsticks/oil-tank-cover-kit-6-qt.html

Thanks in advance!

[PA1195]

I'll take some pics but it's really quite simple. See page 67 of the Wag-Aero catalog for duct adapters and heat valves. There may be other sources.

Gary

[Fjquast]

I'll take some pics but it's really quite simple. See page 67 of the Wag-Aero catalog for duct adapters and heat valves. There may be other sources.

Gary

Thanks, I think I got it, but I always like to verify via pictures if I can. I referenced Wag-Aero as well.

Felix

[PA1195]

Here's my heat robber setup. On the left is the "Y" that goes to the 2" bulkhead collar and carb heat box. In the middle is the left muffler to regular cabin heat source box. On the right is the airbox mounted behind the firewall with a collar that extends through the firewall and a collar (now capped off for summer) to which the long red SCAT defroster hose attaches in winter. A cable goes from the airbox arm to the panel to activate the heat. The extra airbox has no air dump and is variable open<>closed. Closed if all carb heat airflow is needed.

Gary