Pre-shrinking Tapes

[Robert Lees]

Re: Pre-shrinking Tapes

Sure you shrink the fabric... it's polyester like the rest. The glue is so strong that you don't need to worry about tapes shrinking. Go over there and check it out...it's a great system! www.stewartsystems.aero

I've never pre-shrunk my Polyfibre tapes, and I have flown my dark red wing in the Mediterranean summer heat (40C) without any problem.

[barnstmr]

Re: Pre-shrinking Tapes

I am thinking the same as Rob... you know... Dad's Midnight Blue Cabin Waco was covered with Ceconite with Randolphs and went through many seasons/years and never had a shrinkage problem. Perhaps it depends on getting good penetration and adhesion with your initial installation of the tapes.

Mark... maybe you are the only one with the shrinkage problem?

[Ragwing nut]

Re: Pre-shrinking Tapes

I have seen it many times and is usually a result of too little glue or dope under the tape when applied. Stits and Airtech used to be real bad and dope was to if it was applied thick. I never shrunk my tapes either, but also never had a problem due to the manor in which I installed them on dope systems.

[Carrieve]

Re: Pre-shrinking Tapes

I recovered my Tcraft over 20 years ago with Stits (back then) and it looks as good today as it did back then. Maybe I finally did something right.

[Pearson]

Re: Pre-shrinking Tapes

When I was shopping around for a Taylorcraft many years ago before I bought the one I have, I inspected a Taylorcraft that had several places where you could see about an eigth inch of daylight comming through to the inside along the edge of the tapes where they had shrunk . So, I know it does happen.

If Stewarts is also polyester, why do you say you don't have to worry about the tapes shrinking? I wouldn't think the covering system would have anything to do with it. If the tape isn't preshrunk and it gets hot enough in the sun, isn't it going to shrink?

[N96337]

Re: Pre-shrinking Tapes

Richard, Stewarts uses their glue to set the tapes, and their glue is much much stronger than any other system's glue out there. It's strong enough that you don't need to do a glue seam over structure to be legal... a 1" fabric to fabric glued seam is legal anywhere. Try to pull a tape that's been installed per Stewarts and you'll be sold right away!
Ragwing is very correct in his post...most don't install the tapes properly with most systems to start with and then they do tend to creep if they get hot enough.
John

[Pearson]

Re: Pre-shrinking Tapes

It's strong enough that you don't need to do a glue seam over structure to be legal... a 1" fabric to fabric glued seam is legal anywhere.

Are you saying that the glue is so strong the tapes can't shrink because they are one with the fabric? Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't Polyfiber require a four inch seam when joining fabric to fabric? I like the idea of a non toxic covering system. But I have seen a couple of planes covered with Stewart and I didn't care for the way the paint jobs turned out. I guess it could have been the particular person who painted them. But these were demo planes set up by a Stewarts booth at an airshow. It sounds like the advantages of Stewarts might be worth checking out. I would just want some way to put a really nice paint job on over it. How does Stewarts compare with Polyfiber on costs?

[N96337]

Re: Pre-shrinking Tapes

Yes, the tapes wont move because the glue is so strong. Even if it loses much of it's strength, it's still stronger than any of the other glues.
The topcoat isn't particularly hard to work with...IF you can follow instructions and pay attention to details all the way through the process. I taught that system for years and the people that had problems weren't following instructions. there are seemingly minute details that make a big difference in the way the job turns out. What didn't you like about the finish? The paint is actually quite forgiving in many aspects, but not in some. Like I always tell people...not hard, just different! I found that the people that had the most trouble were ones that had already painted with solvent borne paints....including me! It's not easy to break all those habits.
Costwise, it's like everything else..not far from any of them. One thing you'll find is that you save big not having to ship hazmat.
I don't want to steal this thread anymore than we already have... if you're interested, shoot me a PM and I'll answer any questions I can for ya!
John

[Pearson]

Re: Pre-shrinking Tapes

John,

Thanks for the offer, but I am still quite a ways from glueing down any fabric. I will check it out when the time comes. Thanks for the info!

[Richh2only]

Re: Pre-shrinking Tapes

Poly Fiber recommends two coats of poly brush to be put down prior to sticking the tapes down. If you order your Poly Fiber supplies from Aircraft Technical Support in Orient Ohio there is not a Hazard Material fee on shipping if you don't order 5 gallon containers. They also give excellent phone support on the products they sell, I just attended a weekend Fabric Workshop on the Poly Fiber process and picked up some good information. Their phone number is 1-877-877-3334 and you talk right to people that have covered many airplanes over the last 30 years, so they know what they are talking about and have seen almost every mistake we novices can make. Good luck on your project.
Richard Herzberger
N43178 Member 1072

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: Pre-shrinking Tapes

John,
Agree about hijacking the thread, but there is SO MUCH bad info about different coverings systems I would vote for starting a set of threads on each of the best known covering systems where people who really know what they are talking about can post the recommended process and others can kick in questions and problems for recommendations. I would NOT have one thread on all coverings, but one for each system where comments are made on that one. If we start one on each system at about the same time they would be a great information source to archive.
I would recommend someone who has had good luck with Stewarts (John?) just start with the factory link and instructions then stand back as we read and ask questions. If John did that one maybe someone else with good results from Stitts and Poly Fiber could do the same. I know I had some bad experiences with Razorback DECADES ago that poisoned my use of it, and I didn't find out till I read it hear the problem was I didn't follow the right process!
Hank

[Ragwing nut]

Re: Pre-shrinking Tapes

John,
Agree about hijacking the thread, but there is SO MUCH bad info about different coverings systems I would vote for starting a set of threads on each of the best known covering systems where people who really know what they are talking about can post the recommended process and others can kick in questions and problems for recommendations. I would NOT have one thread on all coverings, but one for each system where comments are made on that one. If we start one on each system at about the same time they would be a great information source to archive.
I would recommend someone who has had good luck with Stewarts (John?) just start with the factory link and instructions then stand back as we read and ask questions. If John did that one maybe someone else with good results from Stitts and Poly Fiber could do the same. I know I had some bad experiences with Razorback DECADES ago that poisoned my use of it, and I didn't find out till I read it hear the problem was I didn't follow the right process!
Hank

a good idea Hank.

[Ray36048]

Re: Pre-shrinking Tapes

When I was shopping around for a Taylorcraft many years ago before I bought the one I have, I inspected a Taylorcraft that had several places where you could see about an eigth inch of daylight comming through to the inside along the edge of the tapes where they had shrunk . So, I know it does happen.

If Stewarts is also polyester, why do you say you don't have to worry about the tapes shrinking? I wouldn't think the covering system would have anything to do with it. If the tape isn't preshrunk and it gets hot enough in the sun, isn't it going to shrink?

If the tapes have shrunk, you will see it on the finsihed surface. When you look inside and see light near the edge of the tapes, it is because the guy sanded the silver too much and removed from the edge. You have to be real carefull when you sand. Edges like tape cut really fast.

[barnstmr]

Re: Pre-shrinking Tapes

Here's a related bit of information I found on the ceconite webpage... This is most often used with Randolph products...

NEW SUPER SEAM
Use: New Super Seam is an improvement of the original Ceconite Super Seam Cement. This new formulation is clear, vinyl-based cement that may be over coated with all Randolph dopes with no incompatibilities. New Super Seam has twice the peel strength of the original nitrate-based Super Seam or Rand-O-Bond. The �New� on the can differentiates New Super Seam from the original.

Note: New Super Seam is a vinyl-based cement that should not be added to nitrate dope to enhance dope adhesion. In the past, some people erroneously added nitrate cements, like Rand-O-Bond or Super Seam, to nitrate dope to help tape adhesion. In fact, while this seemed to help in applying tapes, the high-solids mixture that resulted from this unwise addition actually promoted tape delamination during service life. In any case, DO NOT add New Super Seam to nitrate dope for any reason.

Packaging: Gallons, quarts.
Mixing: Use directly out of the can with no mixing. If the cement thickens or begins to dry in use, add MEK to bring it back to original viscosity.

Application: Apply with a one-inch brush directly to the surface. Lay the fabric directly into the wet cement and force the cement through the weave with protected fingers or a squeegee. Cement only 12 to 18 inches at a time to prevent the cement from drying. Cement directly to epoxy-primed metal, epoxy-varnished wood, or epoxy-primed composite surfaces.

Normal Shelf life: Generally two years unopened. Heat over 100 degrees F. can damage the cement. If the cement has been exposed to heat in storage, it will turn whiskey colored; do not use cement unless it is perfectly clear.

[Robert Lees]

Re: Pre-shrinking Tapes

New SuperSeam is PolyTak. It's the same stuff. In a different tin, with a different STC.