Aileron spar reinforments

[1938BF50]

Re: Aileron spar reinforments

Making a slit may not work........ my '38 has an aluminum reinforcement over that area both top and bottom. Have no idea what the postwars look like.

[Guest]

Re: Aileron spar reinforments

Thank you guys for the help...if somebody has a pic of an uncovered aileron that would be wonderful... can it be reached with just a closed end wrench



As far as my experience goes I have a solid background in mechanics through High School I was fortunate enough to work for a very respected corvette and hot rod restoration shop. I learned to paint, wire, and customize most everything correctly. I then went to continue work with composites, both fiber and metal based as I built control surfaces for every imaginable commercial aircraft out there.(9/11) came and I put my self through college (engineering Mech. BS, MS and in thesis for EDD in Aviation Sciences) as mechanic and manager of several local cars. I was responsible for any and all maint. of these relics so that they were ready to drive anytime the owners wished. Currently I work in the metal processing side of aviation. We handle every spar and bulkhead to the F35 and several others. I also run the assembly portion and UT here. I work next to the airport and the FBO A/P IA lets me keep my plane in his hangar and has set me up with full set of tools there. In return I turn wrenches for him mostly 421 stuff and trouble shoot his electrical problems. I get to record this towards my soon to be A/P. The 421 and Conquest owners trade me twin flight time for expediting the maint. as an extra hand.

I have posted several times on here I imagine without any real introduction. Its unfortunate that we are sparsely located as i have only met Chuck in person. I am deeply indebted to this group for the help I have received. ( stuck trim night before a needed flight, luggage and brake options, countless procedures, interpretation of FAR's and the list goes on)

I have taken many pictures of the fixes and will work to make a compilation for later submission as it seems that we have the same issues.

Please see the next thread I post.

Cool, very impressive.

Sounds like you have nice set up.

I try to be aware of who I am telling what (I don't always do so well at it) so that I do not advise folks to do things that are not legal or not wise.

Dave

[swoeric]

Re: Aileron spar reinforments

Dave I completely understand where you are coming from. It is amazing the lack of responsibility that folks have for what they do and that they would use the excuse "I read it on the internet."

Mike I just looked over lunch at my setup and found that i have tapes on the bottom of the aileron in very much the same shape as your doubler. I did not try to cut it yet but it does feel stiffer to the tap or drum than the surrounding areas.

To the others that mentioned the slice....is this aft of the doubler location and then a longer extension to it?

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: Aileron spar reinforments

Yes, you go UNDER the doubler. It will be a LOT easier if you can put your hands on a bare aileron so you can know what it feels like when the socket is on the fasteners. A real handy little tool to have is a flashlight bulb with two pieces of wire soldered to it you can lace through the hole to light up the inside of the aileron so you can see inside through the slice without having to look with the flashlight next to your head at the hole. Handy little tool for your box.
Hank

Try saying that third sentence all in one breath!

[Guest]

Re: Aileron spar reinforments

the one picture may mislead you, the aluminum is not installed in the one picture making it appear as you could use a wrench, but you cannot

you have to use a long extention and socket to reach under the aluminum up to the top edge of the spar where the nut is

the slit is aft of the aluminum directly behind the nut

the slit works I just did 2 of them

hope that helps

[3Dreaming]

Re: Aileron spar reinforments

I have seen an access cut into the doubler before with a plate over the hole.

[avenger1949]

Re: Aileron spar reinforments

And I am just a poooooor Light Sport guy with a light sport license.... I am not sure I am even qualifed to shake the aileron to see if it is loose...... I better call an A&P........lol

[Guest]

Re: Aileron spar reinforments

And I am just a poooooor Light Sport guy with a light sport license.... I am not sure I am even qualifed to shake the aileron to see if it is loose...... I better call an A&P........lol

if you say so

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: Aileron spar reinforments

You will find that as you get to know your plane you will know as much or more about your bird than your A&P/IA. If he is a GOOD one he will look to you for information specific to your plane. It is impossible for any professional mechanic to know ALL of the little tricks and methods on every plane he works on. You can't tell him how to do things, but you CAN AND SHOULD pass your knowledge about your plane to him. The GOOD A&P/IAs EAT THIS UP! It is a good thing for both of you. If he thinks what you suggest as common in the Tribe isn't safe or a good idea, you WANT him to say so. He won't do it if he thinks it isn't safe and WE WANT YOU TO TELL US IF HE SAYS IT ISN'T! We could be passing bad info and we want to know about it. When your mechanic is wrong it can be a delicate problem to address. He is the professional and we are the amateurs, but When you are comfortable and HE isn't....DON'T FLY IT TILL YOU GET SOMEONE ELSE TO SIGN IT OFF. If you think it is safe and you have TWO A&P/IAs saying it isn't, make sure your life insurance is in order. You (we) are probably wrong.
This is supposed to be fun, and when you get a good relationship going with your mechanic, it will be even better. We trust the professionals who work on our planes with our lives, literally.
Hank

[avenger1949]

Re: Aileron spar reinforments

Sorry poor atempt at humor, I have built a couple light sport planes and was still smarting a bit over not being qualified to change my own oil as per FAA rules in my Tcraft. I did have the same problem with ailerons being loose and just snugged them up. IA looked at it and said it was fine. I have a great relationship with both my IA and my A&P both help me a bunch and by knowing me let me work.

[swoeric]

Re: Aileron spar reinforments

i picked up on it avenger. My a/p ia and i have a wonderful relationship. he knows that i get info here and he is very appreciative of it. he actually got to learn fabric from me as his bread and butter are 421's. i really couldn't ask for a better situation

[N96337]

Re: Aileron spar reinforments

Swoeric, the very first thing that should enter your mind when you find a loose bracket like this, is WHY???? Like Hank mentioned in an earlier post, make SURE that you're the first one to ever have tightened up that nut, and figure out why it came loose! Unless you're the original owner and the only one that's done maintenance on the plane since new or at least an aileron rebuild, you can't be sure that someone else hasn't cranked on them before. Here's what I found on my Tcraft, years ago, when I did my first annual on it. The previous mechanics or owners had cranked things down more than once! This plane spent it's life in a nice dry climate, but you can see what was waiting for me when I opened up the aileron....









Not saying yours will be anything like that, but even in the picture that Mike Cushway posted, you can see distortion and damage behind that one washer from overtightening and "not so great" wood.... check it over closely!!

[T.Taylor]

Re: Aileron spar reinforments

Looks like Mike's first pic is drilled bolts, if that is what someone put in, it will be tough pulling cotter pins out and putting them back in thru a slit in the fabric, Tom

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: Aileron spar reinforments

John,
I think you may have won the prize for the WORST damaged ailerons from overtightening! Those spars are SCARY. Anyone else think they have a shot at the "Baby Huey"award?
Hank

Sure glad you found the damage before the spar failed! I have a mental picture of that aileron spar in turbulence getting a real workout and cracking across the crushed grain. Not a pretty ending. Good on ya for catching it!

[N96337]

Re: Aileron spar reinforments

Yah Hank...it sure opened my eyes to look in there and see that...especially when it was flying alot and over gross just before I bought it!! It just goes to show what alot of the mechanics and people that are "taking care" of these planes, DON'T know about what they are doing or looking at! The spars in the wings weren't that much better! People that haven't worked with wood, don't realize what can be going on in there...that's why I was saying that the first thing through your mind when you find something loose, is WHY?????
I keep that spar on my wall, as a reminder and a demonstration tool to everyone that comes through the door with an airplane with wood in it...as well as some other "choice" parts I've come across in the last 30+ years... like they say, a picture is worth a thousand words..well, holding that part in their hands is worth even more!