Tire 600x6 6ply

[magman]

Re: Tire 600x6 6ply

I think ASTJP2 is giving the message that the tire ( or any other mod) does not have to cause a problem

to result in a violation.

The same situation of a "Major Alteration without a proper Return to Service" can result in a Insurance Co.

denying coverage.

"Couple of pounds" is not NEGLIGIBLE for Weight & Balance purposes.


The "6 ply for 4 ply" upgrade is a common thing to do.

Making it "better" IS an Alteration.

Major?

I believe it IS a good thing to do in many cases.

HOW do we do it to satisfy the current interpretation of the regs?

[astjp2]

Re: Tire 600x6 6ply

Wow, its amazing how much some owners will squeal over a simple 337 for a tire swap. I am not worried about litigation, but I make sure that when an aircraft goes out to fly, that it will pass scruitny of a ramp check, be safe to fly and I can sleep well at night with what I have done. I am involved in a lawsuit right now because some pilot crashed and the owner had used autogas sometime before the crash flight. The owners insurance settled, none of the mechanics are protected that worked on the airplane. I did the work for FREE, and I still got sued. I had no knowledge of the autogas, but I am still getting sued. NOT one other person in this discussion as admitted to being a mechanic or IA, just a few owners griping about paperwork that they dont even have to do.

[Guest]

Re: Tire 600x6 6ply

I think ASTJP2 is giving the message that the tire ( or any other mod) does not have to cause a problem

to result in a violation.

The same situation of a "Major Alteration without a proper Return to Service" can result in a Insurance Co.

denying coverage.

"Couple of pounds" is not NEGLIGIBLE for Weight & Balance purposes.


The "6 ply for 4 ply" upgrade is a common thing to do.

Making it "better" IS an Alteration.

Major?

I believe it IS a good thing to do in many cases.

HOW do we do it to satisfy the current interpretation of the regs?

If you do it as a major with a 337 what do you use for approved data and where do you get ?

Dave

[magman]

Re: Tire 600x6 6ply

Dave

CAR 4 would be Approved Data.

CAR 4 ( not FAR 23) is the Certification Basis that T's must comply with.

The tire portion is a very simple statement like " must fit the wheel & be of the proper load rating".

That's ALL folks!


Personally; I would not go the 337 route.

My interpretation is the "4 ply" is a MINIMUM rating.

You can increase wraps on a Turnbuckle; rivet edge distance & tubing wall thickness also.


Post #17 refers to owners "griping" about paperwork.

I sympathize with them on this especially after they become aware of:

1. The Preventative Maintenance item of a simple tire change would NOW require an IA for the INITIAL "Upgrade".

Any Tech that signs a Return to Service on any Major Alteration without actually examining the process

needs Medical attention & would be in violation.

I can see time delays & $$$ here.

2. If the following tire change reverts back to the 4-ply it would require the signature of an A & P to

reconfigure to the original.

A tire change would be PM only if the the new tire ply rating matched the latest 337/Log Entry.

3. Checking the 337 file prior to a tire change would not be in my sights.

Much of the INTERPRETATION of regs have changed over the years.

I can assure you that many ( as in a LOT) of aircraft have been used for FAA Flight Checks over the years

with a higher ply rating.



The next time you have an opportunity examine a tire worn down to the cord.

Stick your fingers INSIDE & OUTSIDE.

They seem to almost touch even on a 6 ply!

The "4 for 6" mod may well be overkill for a T.

4 ply tires are legal on many aircraft that have a MGTOW nearly double that of a T.

Increasing MGTOW for a 172 via STC mandates the 6 ply tire.


As always; this post is for entertainment only!

[crispy critter]

Re: Tire 600x6 6ply

You guys are really having some fun with this one aren't ya??? The difference in an airhawk tire 4ply verses 6 ply in wieght as of 20 minutes ago.....about 5ozs,that's about half a pound total wieght difference. Now,tires are considered proventitive maintanance to most however consult with your IA/A&P to confirm thier definition of it. In my opinion going from a 4-6 ply should be noted in the logbook as a minor change and wieght difference(if any) should be noted. It is legal to use the 6ply in place of the 4ply as an improved part however if your bird calls for a 6ply it is NOT legal to go to a 4ply under any reason that I'm aware of. I have no problem taking a 6ply tire off my 250 Comanche and installing on my t-craft but I have a major problem taking a 4ply off the t-craft and putting on the comanche.
AS FOR THE ORIGINAL QUESTIONS ASKED WHEN THIS POST STARTED......ask your IA what he wants you to do. You are perfectly fine and legal to install or have the 6ply tires installed but just ask your IA how he wants the paperwork done. If he says you can sign it off yourself like an oil change then do so,if he says he needs to make a log entry then let him do so,etc,etc. Ask him,that way you are covered and he knows about it. If you are your own A&P/IA who simply doesn't know,call your local FSDO and ask them. As for pressures in the 6ply vs' 4ply......you will notice the 6 ply stands a little straighter on the side walls,has less roll feel in taxi,will probably notice a little less bounce and a more firm feel to the gear all the way around. I would start by running about 25lbs in each tire and adjust up or down from there. I would not run less then 18-20lbs in them without putting some kind of bead seal on them because then might try to spin on the wheel. Hope this helps.

[freightpilot27]

Re: Tire 600x6 6ply

ask your IA what he wants to do. otherwise.....

not an issue, make a logbook entry stating what tires you removed and what you installed. (include tube's too if you changed them.)
my local friendly FAA inspector says this also (i maintain his 172, so we work well together)

[NY86]

Re: Tire 600x6 6ply

Wow, its amazing how much some owners will squeal over a simple 337 for a tire swap.

If you do it as a major with a 337 what do you use for approved data and where do you get ?

Simple? Agreed, if you're filing a 337, what are you using for the basis for approval? A field approval? Not simple, in my book.

OTOH, where in appendix A is increasing the weight capacity of the tire called out as a major modification?

[M Towsley]

Re: Tire 600x6 6ply

I don't mean to interrupt this thread, but I have never been able to find anything regarding CAR 4, etc. Only things referring to CAR 4. Is there somewhere that spells out what CAR 4 is as mentioned in an earlier post? I am just curious and would like to read this information. Thanks!

[N96337]

Re: Tire 600x6 6ply

Can you get 4 ply tires anymore? I don't know if I've ever seen a new one!
Marty, here's CAR4... http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Gu...e?OpenFrameSet

I've only been around this for about 30 years, but haven't seen any 337's for "stepping up" on tire ply ratings... stepping up size, yes...but not ply ratings. I totally agree that it would be a factor if you went DOWN in ply rating.

I do find this whole deal a bit ironic, coming from the guy that was telling people to install their top bolt in their new struts first and just pry them into place if they didn't fit right...... I guess we all have our "priorities" as to what is important to each of us!
John

[M Towsley]

Re: Tire 600x6 6ply

Thanks for the link!

[astjp2]

Re: Tire 600x6 6ply

You can use the TSO for tires as the data, and find any other similar aircraft that it has been done with before or on the their type certificate. A good PMI would just sign off the 337 using the tso data. Tim
Even if you meet CAR4a, you still have to comply with FAR 3.5, meets type design. If it is modified, then its a major.....

If you do it as a major with a 337 what do you use for approved data and where do you get ?

Dave

[Ragwing nut]

Re: Tire 600x6 6ply

Does the service letter the FAA put out several years back for aging aircraft saftey not cover petty crap like this. Simply put, the alowance seat belt harness installs, batteries, and other minor improvements, etc that are not listed on the tcds can be done as a simple logbook entry? I can't it right now or I would post it up.

[NY86]

Re: Tire 600x6 6ply

If it is modified, then its a major.....

except when it's minor... Or are you saying there is no such thing as a minor modification?

[freightpilot27]

Re: Tire 600x6 6ply

this is ridiculous...

your going to get different answers from different FAA inspectors and obviously different answers from different A&P's as well as wanna-be A&P's

ASK YOUR A&P / IA WHAT HE WANTS... he is the one that counts

[astjp2]

Re: Tire 600x6 6ply

If its not on the TCDS, it can be minor if it is not adressed in appendix A, but if its a modification that changes it from the TCDS, then its a major....