Tire 600x6 6ply

[Laz]

I think I screwed up. I purchased a pair of Aero Classic 600x6 tires for my BC 12D. They are 6 ply. I know the T-craft calls for a 4 ply. Should I use them or sell them and buy 4 ply? If I keep them what tire pressure should I use.

[cvavon]

Re: Tire 600x6 6ply

I ran 600/6 6ply for 5 years did flight training with the plane over 1500 landings on pavement pulled them to put on bush wheels this summer there now on a luscumbe and have over half there tread and will run for a long time also they don't weigh much more then 4 ply I would run them I ran about 20#to 25# PSI in them chuck

[Guest]

Re: Tire 600x6 6ply

I think I screwed up. I purchased a pair of Aero Classic 600x6 tires for my BC 12D. They are 6 ply. I know the T-craft calls for a 4 ply. Should I use them or sell them and buy 4 ply? If I keep them what tire pressure should I use.

Have your mechanic enter the installation of 600x6 6ply as a minor alteration in the aircraft records.

You need an airframe rating to do it. If you have one do it yourself.

Dave

[astjp2]

Re: Tire 600x6 6ply

Its not a minor, its a major alteration! Needs a 337 because its on the TCDS. Tim

Have your mechanic enter the installation of 600x6 6ply as a minor alteration in the aircraft records.

You need an airframe rating to do it. If you have one do it yourself.

Dave

[Guest]

Re: Tire 600x6 6ply

Its not a minor, its a major alteration! Needs a 337 because its on the TCDS. Tim

That is not correct. You are not reading/quoting the entire definition of a major alteration.

Here it is direct from the online FAR’s part one, paragraph (1) is the key to this.

From part 1:
Major alteration means an alteration not listed in the aircraft, aircraft engine, or propeller specifications—
(1) That might appreciably affect weight, balance, structural strength, performance, powerplant operation, flight characteristics, or other qualities affecting airworthiness; or
(2) That is not done according to accepted practices or cannot be done by elementary operations.

Minor alteration means an alteration other than a major alteration.

Dave

[Guest]

Re: Tire 600x6 6ply

It won’t be long before some one quotes part 43 appendix A and the landing gear alteration line(vi) as the reason that this is major.

So let me get this thought in now. Where in appendix A does it define an oil change as preventive maintenance that can be done by the owner?

When you find that section you will find replacing a 4ply tire with a 6 ply in the same section.

Actually you will not find that section as it does not exist yet we accept as true. When I pressed the FAA on this a few years ago he described that section to me as common sense.

This is from FAR 1

Preventive maintenance means simple or minor preservation operations and the replacement of small standard parts not involving complex assembly operations.

[astjp2]

Re: Tire 600x6 6ply

So when did deviating from the TCDS become a minor? That is what an IA uses to determine type design, To meet the criteria for AIRWORTHY, it must meet type design (from the TCDS) and be in condition for safe operation (inspected). If it does not meet type design, it is a major. There have been mechanics violated for something as stupid as tire ply. So Dave, how can you say the aircraft meets type design with a 6 ply tire when the TCDS specifically calls for a 4 ply tire?

You might also want to refer to FAR 3.5

Are there any other A&P's or IA's going to pipe into this discussion? Tim

The USA Federal Aviation Regulations, Part 21, §21.183(d) has a procedural definition of airworthy:
"other aircraft An applicant for a standard airworthiness certificate for aircraft not covered by paragraphs (a) through (c) (a:"New aircraft manufactured under a production certificate." b:"New aircraft manufactured under type certificate only." c:"Import aircraft.") of this section is entitled to a standard airworthiness certificate if -- (1) He presents evidence to the Administrator that the aircraft conforms to a type design approved under a type certificate or a supplemental type certificate and to applicable Airworthiness Directives; (2) The aircraft (except an experimentally certificated aircraft that previously had been issued a different airworthiness certificate under this section) has been inspected in accordance with the performance rules for 100-hour inspections set forth in part 43.15 of this chapter and found airworthy

[Guest]

Re: Tire 600x6 6ply

So when did deviating from the TCDS become a minor? That is what an IA uses to determine type design, To meet the criteria for AIRWORTHY, it must meet type design (from the TCDS) and be in condition for safe operation (inspected). If it does not meet type design, it is a major. There have been mechanics violated for something as stupid as tire ply. So Dave, how can you say the aircraft meets type design with a 6 ply tire when the TCDS specifically calls for a 4 ply tire?

You might also want to refer to FAR 3.5

Are there any other A&P's or IA's going to pipe into this discussion? Tim

The USA Federal Aviation Regulations, Part 21, §21.183(d) has a procedural definition of airworthy:
"other aircraft An applicant for a standard airworthiness certificate for aircraft not covered by paragraphs (a) through (c) (a:"New aircraft manufactured under a production certificate." b:"New aircraft manufactured under type certificate only." c:"Import aircraft.") of this section is entitled to a standard airworthiness certificate if -- (1) He presents evidence to the Administrator that the aircraft conforms to a type design approved under a type certificate or a supplemental type certificate and to applicable Airworthiness Directives; (2) The aircraft (except an experimentally certificated aircraft that previously had been issued a different airworthiness certificate under this section) has been inspected in accordance with the performance rules for 100-hour inspections set forth in part 43.15 of this chapter and found airworthy

The FAA meetings that I have been in have given this statement for a description of airworthy:

airworthy—is when an aircraft meets its type design or properly altered condition and is in a condition for safe operation.

Additionally they have said the two people can see one repair/alteration differently it happens.

An aside question : if one did a 337 where does he get the approved data from? I ask because you are making it sound as though folks are doing 4ply to 6 ply alterations on a 337.

BTW- I think we have a good question for the FAA. Let's put it to them to answer. What do you think?

Dave

[astjp2]

Re: Tire 600x6 6ply

YES they are doing a 337 for a conversion from 4 ply to 6 ply. It not a big deal to do the paperwork, I think Terry would be a good candidate to ask. lets try him first. I try to avoid my FSDO because every time I go down there, their director is alway saying violate...violate violate. He is a real JackA$$.

[magman]

Re: Tire 600x6 6ply

There may be some insight into this by looking at the Certification Basis.

These aircraft were certified under CAR 4 which is much more lenient than FAR Part 23.

I seem to recall a statement like " tires must fit the wheel & carry the load".

[Ray]

Re: Tire 600x6 6ply

So are the 6 ply better what is the major difference other than one is 4 and the other is 6. I'm replacing mine but they had 6 ply on them. I'm also replacing the tubes.

[astjp2]

Re: Tire 600x6 6ply

Well if you change your tires and your mechanic misses them on the annual, then he or she will take the hit if there is an accident or incident. So your "no big deal" screws your mechanic out of their certificate. If you want to start modifying things buy a boat. At least you wont cost them their ticket! Tim

[NY86]

Re: Tire 600x6 6ply

A 6 ply tire can handle more weight than a 4 ply tire of the same size. 6 ply tires have stiffer side walls, so they absorb less energy under the same load conditions. 6 ply tires are heavier by a couple of pounds.

IMHO, installing a 6 ply tire on a plane with fixed gear certified for 4 ply tires is a minor modification. Installing a 4 ply tire on a plane certified for 6 ply tires is a major modification. Installing a 6 ply tire on a plane certified with retractable gear and 4 ply tires is a gray area; they should work but if the gear hangs up in the wells, you'll have some 'splainin' to do, Lucy.

[astjp2]

Re: Tire 600x6 6ply

So you are wiling to risk your certificate for an alteration from the tcds? Which one would the faa take? IA? A&P? SEL? It's not a matter of opinion, it what the FAA has determined to be a major.... Tim

[cvavon]

Re: Tire 600x6 6ply

Here is a page fron the STC for my Alaska bush wheels tires that are on my plane and this is the care and continued air worthiness manual it is self explanatory as to ply rating when the type cert was written for our plains plys meant the number of plys now its a load rating not the number of plys and would be a safety up grade also if you will re read the type cert our plane they were calling out 2 ply as standard and 4 ply as an option ALSO MAYBE IF YOU ARE SO PARANOID OF LITIGATION MAYBE YOU SHOULD GO WORK ON BOATS !!!!!!!! Because i would NOT want you anywhere near my aircraft