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**Pearson** · 02-09-2010, 15:06

Re: Complete BL-65 rebuild Looking for comments and and thoughts

Bird,

How you restore your plane depends on what you want to do with it. If you are just looking for a general purpose all around airplane, my suggestion would be to rebuild the A65.

Making modifications can make a plane faster, or capable of hauling more weight, but they always take much longer than anticipated. They also usually add to the cost of the rebuild.

If you like fancy avionics, efis, and that sort of stuff, I suggest you sell this plane and get something made from aluminum.

But, all that aside, if you just want a general purpose airplane to go out and have fun with, maybe hone your skill with, or meet new flying buddies with, you are definitely on the right track. Since the A65 has the accessories, it will be easier to make flyable. It also is easier to find parts for. I suggest you spend a couple of WEEKS doing searches on this forum for every imaginable subject you can think of. Take notes and create a plan for what you want to do. Then get to work stripping your bird down to get it ready for a recover.

There are a few mods that are not too expensive and do not add too much time to the recover. You may want to look into adding a skylight and/or adding a second 6 gal wing tank if yours doesn't have one. Also if your plane has only one door, this is a good time to add the second one.

**crispy critter** · 02-09-2010, 18:28

Re: Complete BL-65 rebuild Looking for comments and and thoughts

I would use the 15 rib wings and make the wing spar and fitting mods for the 85/0200 conversion just in case you want to upgrade later. I would recommend the Cont A65 because it has more power,more dependable,less gas,and much easier to find parts and service for. As for parts for the airframe, they're out there but sometimes ya just gotta look for a bit. This forum is always a great source for advice,info,and encouragement. Restoring an airplane takes a lot of work,patients,and determination. If you get frustrated then just put it aside and go back to it later. Never be afriad to ask for help,your cub buddies should be a good help because a t-craft is really a little easier work on then a cub. Also check with some local EAA chapters and go hang out as some of the local airports & airparks on the weekends. If ya can find some little grass-root places is always a good place to find helpful info from folks in the know....you also never know what kind of spare parts ya might find laying around in some old timers and not so old timers shops. Don't be afraid to be nosey,ask questions and introduce yourself,especially when ya see someone fly-in in an old classic or experimental. Most classic airplane folks are always willing to take time to shoot the breeze and lend advice and encouragment.

**flylo** · 02-09-2010, 18:57

Re: Complete BL-65 rebuild Looking for comments and and thoughts

If you decide to use the Lyc I have several spares & parts. I like mine,it looks better with an open cowl,it's easy on fuel, & very smooth. There are a few tricks you need to know & I'll be glad to share them if you decide to use it. I have the orig performance specs for my '38 & it will match them all as stated. It won't climb quite as fast as the Cont, but it's a smaller engine. If you decide not to use it,let me know,I'd like to buy it for parts. Thanks! Eric

**Jim Herpst** · 02-09-2010, 19:14

Re: Complete BL-65 rebuild Looking for comments and and thoughts

Oh Boy, Have not been on the site or posted in a long time but now that I have 110 hrs on the Baby Ace that I brought back from a basket case, I may be ready for another Taylorcraft . I understand my old Cessna airmaster green and lemon yellow taylorcraft is now in Illinois (NC 94984) Oh well back close(r) to home I suppose. NOW back to the subject matter. Unfortunantly even though a BC and a BL are the same air frame they were built under a different TC. Unless it already has approval for a continental A-65 you cannot simply bolt one on and go fly ( to be legal with the FAA). You will need to sort all this out first. In any case you have a good light Taylorcraft. Keep it that way is my only advice no matter what engine yoiu put in her.... Best of luck. You will be fine just continue to ask the questions.

**flylo** · 02-09-2010, 20:15

Re: Complete BL-65 rebuild Looking for comments and and thoughts

Mrs Ferris issued a letter stating that the BL,BC,& BF airframes were the same. I think that letter is somewhere on this site or someone has a copy (I do somewhere). My understanding is this is what you need to change engines. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

**Ragwing nut** · 02-09-2010, 21:44

Re: Complete BL-65 rebuild Looking for comments and and thoughts

Cool, we used to have NC34000 which was a Deluxe project. Have fun is the most important part

**VictorBravo** · 02-10-2010, 02:36

Re: Complete BL-65 rebuild Looking for comments and and thoughts

Originally posted by Bird View Post

I purchased a BL-65 basket case N34002 TT-5458, lycoming 0-145-b2 last logs (5/6/80) show TT-1519 TTSMO-182.3, sensenich metal prop 74CH-2-48, but no carb and no mags.
It came with no instruments although I have acquried the big tach, dir gryo, airspeed, alt, turn and bank and the magnetic compass mounted on the windshield. (my panel is set up for the big tach and 4 other).
Still have to strip the fuslage of someone's previous recovering start.
No interior, metal frame doors are not in the best of shape.
As for the wings they have the truss type ribs
What would you guys recommend for this project?

[email protected]

Howdy Bird, congratulations on your airplane.

You have purchased one of the truly great airplanes in history, which will give you un-matched performance and flying time per dollar, as well as an airplane that will earn you the respect of airline captains, corporate jet drivers, squadron commanders, and anyone else who understands where the class is in aviation.

All yo u have to do is understand that it is the same thing as owning a 65 year old priceless historical automobile. You have to love it for what it is. In return, it will love you and make you a better pilot, for less money, and give you an enormous amount of fun for not much money.

But you absolutely CAN NOT own it, fly it, or treat it like you would a Cessna or Cherokee. The Taylorcraft gives you a lot, and asks for only a little in return. But what it asks for, you darn well have to give it.

The T-craft asks for a little extra care in maintenance and storage. You need to have a hangar to keep it in, because NC has lots of weather. If you absolutely cannot have it in a hangar, then you MUST have a good set of weatherproof covers for it... and you need to make sure it is kept dry and not weatherbeaten. But if you can put it in a hangar, move heaven and earth to get it inside. The airplane will thank you.

You will need to learn more about old airplanes than most other pilots. As mentioned, read all the stuff on this forum, and other resources, to stat the learning process. There is a college level education free for the taking just by looking through the archives of this forum. It is time well spent.

If you have access to a decent A-65 Continental, it is an easy upgrade that is legal to bolt on and fly. You need a mechanic's signature, but the "approval" was issued by Taylorcraft years ago as mentioned (Mrs. Ferris' letter). The airplane will perform better and be more valuable. I'll leave it to Eric and other Lycoming owners to educate you on the pros/cons of keeping the Lycoming... I know zero about those engines.

While you have the airplane apart for rebuild, I would suggest putting in the skylight. Unless you are going for an antique trophy class restoration, the skylight is a very very important modification. Makes the plane safer, more comfortable and more enjoyable. There is an existing STC for a skylight from Gregory Clayton in Alaska. You may also use my wood frame skylight design free of charge, but it will require a field approval.

I do not think that the airframe modifications for the C-85 and O-200 are totally appropriate for your pre-war BL. The reason is that the Gilberti/Harer STC was really not designed for the pre-war airplanes.When the Harer STC re-surfaces in the future, there is a chance that the pre-war airplanes may not be included if this "loop-hole" is finally shut down.. Technically, by the book, I believe there are some structural changes between pre-war and post-war airplanes.Forrest Barber, Mike Redpath and several other highly experienced T-craft experts can expand on this more than I. But the bottom line is that the pre-war T-craft structure should not be pushed up to a 1500 pound gross weight and a heavier model engine.

Th ideal "upgrade" for your airplane would be the Continental A-65 rebuilt as an A-75. This would give you a boost in power and performance without any of the STC problems or modifications. Keep the weight at 1150, knowing that with the A-75 power you have a very good safety margin.

The single most important thing you can do rebuilding the airplane is to keep the weight as light as possible. A light weight pre-war T-craft, with a 75HP Continental and a metal prop, will give you very very good performance... as good pr better than a heavy airplane with an 85 HP engine ! Use the lightest hand-held GPS, a light weight modern small COM radio, and nothing else. No heavy venturi vacuum system, no huge AN gyro compass (DG), no thick heavy soundproofing or buckskin leather interior, no 10 pound monster battery to power an avionics stack, no ten coats of two part ultra gloss paint. If you can get the plane to 700 pounds, you will be assured of great performance AND a good useful load.

I believe the "Stewart Systems" covering system is lighter and easier than the traditional Stits Poly Fiber or Ceconite systems. Everyone I know who has used the Stewart Systems likes it and agrees it is lighter and easier to use. Look into it, there's 15 or 20 pounds you might save on that alone. It's also less expensive.

Definitely use the original pre-war "truss" style 15 rib wing. Not only is it historically correct but it is stronger.

Make sure to have your wing struts X-rayed thoroughly to make sure there is no corrosion. If your struts are good, you can send them in to Univair and have them permanently sealed. This will be lighter than the replacement struts.

You can also save weight by using 4 ply tires instead of 6 or 8 ply tires. The landing speed and weight of the plane are low enough that you do not need the extra weight of heavy duty tires at all.

If you have the ability to put on the later "closed" cowl in, it will yield better speed and cleaner lines than the open style cowl.

Most importantly, participate in this forum. There are so many experts, and so many who have already made the mistakes... and who will help you avoid them!

Bill

**Bird** · 02-10-2010, 08:12

Re: Complete BL-65 rebuild Looking for comments and and thoughts

Thanks for the start here.
I do have 2 wing tanks, I do have 2 doors, I was planning on using a venturi system, the venturi I have is what I believe is called a 9" but I know all iI need is a 4" for my choice of inst.
AT this point I was leaning towards the A65 for reasons stated above and from talking with a buddy here, but I do like the thought of bringing it up to A75.
The doors I have are hinged on the front with a window that is hinged on the top, can I build myself a new set using the old ones as a pattern or just try to fix and patch.
I believe that on my big tach, that it revolves 1 way for a lycoming but for a cont is has to be reversed? I do have one of the new right angle drives but it doesn't look like it will match up to the tach, any thoughts on this?
Also looking on input for the prop that I have, I passed up on a used wood prop that I know would have worked in hopes that what I have is good.
I have the Sensenich 74-ck-2-48 but I see in catalogs the cont calls for 74-ck-0-48.
I like the idea of a skylight also.
Thanks everyone, once I get rolling I will keep a good log here in the forums on this project

**3Dreaming** · 02-10-2010, 08:18

Re: Complete BL-65 rebuild Looking for comments and and thoughts

The letter they are talking about says the airframes are the same for TC696, TC699, and TC700. You still need to do a 337 because the engine is not listed on the TCDS. I did one about 10 years ago for a customer and the FAA did not even come look at the airplane. My old BL that I restored I took an
A-65 out to go back to the little Lycoming. I was looking for originality. It was converted from a Lycoming to a continetal a long time ago. I think it was long enough ago to be considered approved data. The number was N29815. It might be worth the cost to order the records to get a copy of that old 337 for the conversion. Tom

**Bird** · 02-10-2010, 08:30

Re: Complete BL-65 rebuild Looking for comments and and thoughts

One other quick question, the small channel used in the wings-- is this called piper channel 3/8" x 3/8" from Aircraft Spruce?

**Jim Herpst** · 02-10-2010, 13:29

Re: Complete BL-65 rebuild Looking for comments and and thoughts

Ok . BL to BC You have been told basically thats its not a big deal "a factory letter exists ...somewhere..." ( I believe this to be true) "its the same plane as a BC just a different "TC (this is for sure true) "you just need to get a 337" again thats true NOW before you get to far down the road PAAAlease make SURE you can get the paper work straight for this conversion. I know it sounds and is simple enough as far as the logistics with the physical channge BUT and again your mileage may differ "just getting a 337" for YOUR plane MAY not be as easy as IT SHOULD BE. Be advised. There are a bunch of BLs out there that want to be BC 's. Not saying they can not be but YOU will need to be the one that makes it happen for your plane..... just a word to the wise. Best to you . Again you have a great year for a Taylorcraft.

**Bird** · 02-10-2010, 15:41

Re: Complete BL-65 rebuild Looking for comments and and thoughts

Thanks Jim Great Thoughts on that. I already have a copy of the conversion the Hede Family did, now it's time to find a willing babysitter to sign off on it so to speak.

**Larry Lyons** · 02-16-2010, 12:40

Re: Complete BL-65 rebuild Looking for comments and and thoughts

BIRD! Glad to have you aboard but put me first on your list to peddle left over ribs too if you do not use all of them. I am in the third year of my quest for built up ribs and still need about a dozen or so. I have a complete plane except for about 7 ribs per wing that were corroded beyond repair.

Larry Lyons

**astjp2** · 02-16-2010, 17:30

Re: Complete BL-65 rebuild Looking for comments and and thoughts

Originally posted by Bird View Post

One other quick question, the small channel used in the wings-- is this called piper channel 3/8" x 3/8" from Aircraft Spruce?

It is the same material for the ribs as piper, but the airfoil is different. If you need to repair the ribs, you will want to get the piper rib repair kit from Univair, and use "A" rivets. I have a tool that crimps the hat channel and has holes for drilling. If you want pics, let me know. Tim

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