Rebuilding ailerons.

[Len Petterson]

It was suggested I reduild my ailerons, so they are of the plane and in the shop.
The right ailron is striped of the fabric and I found:
A corroded cross brace on the in board end.
What material are in them? 4130 or 1010?
Crushed wood under the center hingemount and control road bracket.
Is what cuase for a new spar?
The rest of the wood spar is in good shape needs a coat of varnish and new plywood under the hinges.
Some minor surface corrosion on the metal Alodine will take care of what.
Renailing the Metal to the spar. Can I use brass nails or do they have to be steel?

[AndyDuke]

Re: Rebuilding ailerons.

I rebuilt my ailerons recently - details on my blog at http://gbrih.blogspot.com/. There is a link on the right hand side to all the aileron posts.

Andy.

[Len Petterson]

Re: Rebuilding ailerons.

When removing the inboard hinge I found the wood under it in realy bad shape.
Yes it is time for 2 new spars, lucky I have sitka to make them from.
What looked like a repair ended up being a rebuild.
Yes it was original spars they are made in 1946 the date is there as well but I dont rember it now.
Len

[Len Petterson]

Re: Rebuilding ailerons.

They came apart, evrything, you cant try to save something for a bit less work, no good!
I did find the manefacutring date on the spar 15 agust 1946.
In servise for 64 years. (;f
Not bad, but I think they replaced the bow, it is made from 1/2 stainles steel tubing, Is it original?
Len

[Guest]

Re: Rebuilding ailerons.

When I did my alieron I found it very helpful to mount it on the wing before doing the final tack down of all the ribs and leading edge. That allowed me make minor adjustments to align the aileron trailing edge with the wing trailing edge so they looked nice and straight. Dave

[Len Petterson]

Re: Rebuilding ailerons.

Sound advise Dave, Thanks.
Len(;f

[astjp2]

Re: Rebuilding ailerons.

I had to get doug fir from home depot airplane parts for my ailerons, they met the spec for grains per inch/slope etc. I wound up using the jointer to get the upper and lower cap angles correct, I match drilled the holes from the existing spars and got some 1/8" ply from the local hobby shop. When you glue the support gussets on some of your ribs will need to be already slid on the spar before gluing them down. The original bow was steel on my pre war ailerons. I used 3003 .012 painted aluminum for the leading edge (rememant trim coil from your local gutter supplier for free) It was the closest to the original I could get. I wound up getting a table saw and making several fixtures to cut all of the different parts out, thank gawd for wood shop in high school. Take your time and if you have any questions ask first.

You dont ever want to say, "I cut it twice and its still too short!" Tim

[Len Petterson]

Re: Rebuilding ailerons.

Are you shure measuring twice is enuogh?
I sort of heard what before.The fellow said: He cut it twice and it is still to short.
The boss fired him the next day. I was doing my plumbing appentic ship at the time.
Yes 3 times or more if I am a hint of unshure.
I saved the old spar but trial mounting the new on the wing with clamps would make shure.
I have sitka from a earlier project I never finished.
Thank's for all the hints, guy's. Len

[Len Petterson]

Re: Rebuilding ailerons.

I am using Dap Resorcinal Glue and I dont like the glue joints. My wood is dry very dry, it has been cut 20 years ago. but stored inside under roof.
Could it be too dry? read somesting about moister content between 8 - 12%
How can I check a small pice off wood for moister content.
I think I dunk some test pices and see what happens.
Len

[astjp2]

Re: Rebuilding ailerons.

You can get a moisture meter, but I would use T-88, glue it with the epoxy, dont crush out the resin, just a brad or to to hold the parts in place, then just cover them and forget about it....you can us fpl16a epoxy which is certified, but the T-88 works as well and is more readily available. Tim

[N96337]

Re: Rebuilding ailerons.

I'd be very careful about recommending T-88 for use on a certified aircraft. The max temp that T-88 is recommended for is 119*F, and at 140*, it has a strength of less than 1/3 of that of wood. According to a few different sources, Dupont being one, a black aircraft on a 70* ramp can have surface temps above 180*, while a red aircraft on a 70* ramp can have surface temps above 160*. There's more than one aircraft that I know of that have used T-88 successfully, and more than one that I know of that have had problems. The old Casein glue as well as Resourcinol lose no strength under the same circumstances. I don't understand why one would want to chance it with T-88. One Tiger Moth that I know of, has a thermocouple up in the wing, with a corresponding temp probe and a restriction of internal temperature for takeoff..... not convienient. The guy to talk to about this stuff is Jeff Morfit, Project manager for general aviation at the Seattle ACO.
John

[Larry Lyons]

Re: Rebuilding ailerons.

I wondered about the choice of glue here. My new spars are built up with the old Resourcinol and it is messy, black, and detracts from the over all looks but who cares. Once built and covered I will relax knowing I do not have the temp worry. John, thanks for bring this up as I did not feel knowledgeable enough to comment. Larry

[freightpilot27]

Re: Rebuilding ailerons.

In the early 70's my father built 2 wood saw horses from scrap 2x4's and ply. He glued them together with Resorcinol. He has used them to rebuild a Luscombe, build a house, restore a 172, build a hanger, and now we are using them extensively with our Taylorcraft project.
They have sat outside in Michigan winters and summers for YEARS at a time. They have had a dozen layers of carpet nailed on and torn off. They have been saturated with chemical paint stripper another dozen times. They have burns from Acetylene torches. Layers of primer, epoxy, and zinc chromate have been sprayed on and scraped off. They have held up to 100's and 100's of pounds at a time.
They are as strong as they were the day they were built.
No one can ever tell me there is a better certified glue for wood aircraft structures.
Period.

If you want to use T88 or any other UNCERTIFIED glue, use it on your homebuilt and see how it holds up after 37 years.

[astjp2]

Re: Rebuilding ailerons.

In the early 70's my father built 2 wood saw horses from scrap 2x4's and ply. He glued them together with Resorcinol. He has used them to rebuild a Luscombe, build a house, restore a 172, build a hanger, and now we are using them extensively with our Taylorcraft project.
They have sat outside in Michigan winters and summers for YEARS at a time. They have had a dozen layers of carpet nailed on and torn off. They have been saturated with chemical paint stripper another dozen times. They have burns from Acetylene torches. Layers of primer, epoxy, and zinc chromate have been sprayed on and scraped off. They have held up to 100's and 100's of pounds at a time.
They are as strong as they were the day they were built.
No one can ever tell me there is a better certified glue for wood aircraft structures.
Period.

If you want to use T88 or any other UNCERTIFIED glue, use it on your homebuilt and see how it holds up after 37 years.

Just to throw a craw in your socks, is the DAP Resorcinol approved? Does it come with a 8130-3? doubt it, most people get it from home depot. Tim

P.s. I am just stirring the pot a little here

[Ragwing nut]

Re: Rebuilding ailerons.

You can get a moisture meter, but I would use T-88, glue it with the epoxy, dont crush out the resin, just a brad or to to hold the parts in place, then just cover them and forget about it....you can us fpl16a epoxy which is certified, but the T-88 works as well and is more readily available. Tim

Do not use T-88 period, for anything. I have seen it fail. It is nothing but resin and has no binders. Joints will come loose easily after 5-7 years. I took a Waco wood turtle deck by hand, including removing stringers from bulkheads. Also witnessed a box spar that had come apart on a Tailwind or similar bird, forgot what it was exactly. Both were less than 10 years old.