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Tale of the Lost Spark

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  • Tale of the Lost Spark

    Thought someone might find this interesting or amusing or possible both.
    I had a magneto that would fail at high temperatures. Worked normal in cool weather. I have all LA-4 Eisemann's.

    Replaced the coil, condenser, and points. I installed it with the second half of a ignition harness that I had bought some time back and only used one half of the set. New and previously unused.
    The engine ran rough on that mag, dropping 100 rpm's but reliably constant.

    Removed and played with mag several times and even installed a 3rd mag that I had gone thru pretty well. This is all on the "bottom" (left) mag. Same results every time. Replaced, rotated, plugs, ect. Everything kept coming back to the wiring harness even though I was trying to avoid that possibility (it was brand new, what the heck.) Finally Manufacturer said he would hi voltage test cables, did so, checked ok.

    Mag(s) would produce a 5mm spark on the bench just by flipping them through by hand, even the one without a coupler. Would do it through the new wiring harness or straight off the coil.

    Installed a new distributor cap and rotor. No change.

    Now the fun part, just in the last 2 days. The plugs on top are non resistor NOS C-26's, installed in cans, and they run smooth on the other (right) mag. The ones on bottom are REM-40's full shielded resistor plugs as in the kind used everywhere. If I switch the left mag and harness that runs rough on the bottom REM-40's to the top plugs (26's), the engine will run smooth.

    Conversely (or perversely) the smooth running mag and harness (right one) will run rough when hooked up to the REM-40's with them installed on top.

    Those same REM-40's ran fine on the heat sensitive mag with the old wiring harness (when the weather was cool.) I have several spares plugs and rotating them in doesn't cure the roughness.

    I have even made a fixture so I can couple the individual harness wire signals to an Oscilliscope and except for getting a flat line one time when oil got on a plug, it didn't show me anything grossly unusual. Did a bunch of other tests also.

    ONE of the things I suspect is that there may be some problem in the area of the cigarettes on the plug ends of the cable. They are longer than optimum and not ceramic.

    I have worked on ignition systems of all kinds since I was a kid, and this is the strangest problem I have ever seen.

    Darryl
    Last edited by flyguy; 12-08-2008, 23:44.

  • #2
    Re: Tale of the Lost Spark

    If you swapped it and it followed the plugs, then the problem is with the plugs. Have you bench checked them on a pressure tester? I have seen new plugs fail under pressure out of the package. Have you double checked harness routing?

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    • #3
      Re: Tale of the Lost Spark

      Don't I wish. Re harness routing: It isn't that rough, and yes.
      DC
      Last edited by flyguy; 11-29-2008, 23:50.

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      • #4
        Re: Tale of the Lost Spark

        When mags are tested, they have to run at 250-400 degrees F, the heat breaks down the coils and condensers. How many hours are on your mags? if its over 500, send them out to a real overhaul shop, not some hack that changes out a few parts and gives them a thumbs up! I perfer Savage, Al is great to work with, slow but you get a properly tested and repaired MAG. Tim

        On that note, one thing I have noticed that most owners seem to run mags until they fail, they are too cheap to do the 500 hour service. Maybe they dont think its necessary.... I have several customers that balked at it and I still sent out thier mags for the 500 hour and they always needed points and condensers as a minimun and the mags ran like new when i put them back on. Tim
        N29787
        '41 BC12-65

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        • #5
          Re: Tale of the Lost Spark

          Saw lots of stuff about Savage on a Goggle search. Nothing about costs. I know the cost will be different based on what they find, but how about some brackets on the cost to rework a "working" set (old but functioning)? How long did they take to turn yours around? Got a few other long lead parts in work so this might be a good time to work the Mags too.
          Any other tribe members get their mags overhauled? Where? How much and how long? Happy?
          Hank

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          • #6
            Re: Tale of the Lost Spark

            Just call him, turnaround was a few weeks, it depends on howmany he has there to be overhauled...Tim
            N29787
            '41 BC12-65

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Tale of the Lost Spark

              Savage is one of the better shops and definitely not the cheapest.

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              • #8
                Re: Tale of the Lost Spark

                I received good service on my Eisemann mags from: Arn-Air
                Contact info: Attn Arnold Kesselring PO Box 148. Bayard, IA 50029. USA Phone: 712-651-2255. Fax: 712-651-2258 .

                Dick
                Dick Smith N5207M TF#159

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                • #9
                  Re: Tale of the Lost Spark

                  Dick,
                  Would you please tell me the manufacturer and or supplier of your ignition harness and what type plugs you are using with the Eisemann's. Yes, Arnold has been quite helpful with some good advice.
                  Darryl
                  Last edited by flyguy; 12-01-2008, 09:39.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Tale of the Lost Spark

                    Darryl, I sent my old shielded leads, off my LA-4's , to Arn-Air and they made me up a duplicate set. I'm a couple hundred miles from home...not able to give you the exact number on my plugs...but they are shielded type, in a C-85.
                    Dick
                    Dick Smith N5207M TF#159

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                    • #11
                      Re: Tale of the Lost Spark

                      I have been happy with Skytronics on all harnesses we have had made

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                      • #12
                        Re: Tale of the Lost Spark

                        Well, as of this afternoon the 85 once more runs smooth on the bottom (right) mag and drops about 50 RPM. Operation on the top (left) mag continues to be good as before with about a 25 RPM drop. Problem solved I guess.

                        Forecast to be some clearing of heavy fog we have had tomorrow so perhaps I will get it buttoned up and fly some. Will be real nice after working on it for a couple of months with a grossly frustrating problem.

                        Bet I can pull a C-85 engine faster than about anyone around now, chuckle. Could do without that skill, no kidding.

                        The fix goes so much against standard aircraft ignition wisdom that I am going to keep it to myself until I am more comfortable with (and sure of) this newly acquired and very high priced (time and effort) tidbit of expertise.

                        Darryl

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                        • #13
                          Re: Tale of the Lost Spark

                          what a tease! come on, fess up!

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                          • #14
                            Re: Tale of the Lost Spark

                            Let me put a little flight time and testing in on it first. We have had nothing but fog and 500ft ceilings for the last week so I haven't been able to fly it yet. I'm just waiting for the weather to improve some so I can wring it out. Really running good on the ground.
                            DC

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                            • #15
                              Re: Tale of the Lost Spark

                              Well I have flown two flights totaling a little over an hour since doing my thing on the ignition and the engine continues to run strong and smooth.

                              What I did to solve the rough running was to spread the plug gaps out to .030 inch on the bottom plugs to match the gaps on the top plugs.

                              That does not track with normal procedures for magneto ignitions as far as I know.

                              I believe I understand what is happening with the plugs and the magnetos, but I do not understand why this condition exists.

                              I believe that the magnetos are putting out a higher voltage with less current and therefore cannot deliver enough power to ignite the mixture consistently until the gap is opened up to increase the impedance/resistance of the gap.

                              I have never heard of anyone having to set aircraft plug gaps to .030 and as a matter of fact it is pretty difficult to do with massive electrode plugs.

                              Why 3 different magnetos with all new parts, very carefully set up, should behave in exactly this same peculiar way is beyond me.

                              Darryl
                              Last edited by flyguy; 12-08-2008, 19:51.

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