help! need throttle cable

[N74DV]

Re: help! need throttle cable

my IA got it routed and all he is waiting for is the rod end. He says it went in without too much difficulty. He did have to add a doubler plate to the panel because the hole needed to be drilled larger and dropped down a bit for the control to fit into the dash.

[Robert Lees]

Re: help! need throttle cable

I hope he's completed a 337 for those modifications.

[N74DV]

Re: help! need throttle cable

knowing him I'll bet it's a certainty that he has!

[astjp2]

Re: help! need throttle cable

Did you get the cable installed? Tim

[N74DV]

Re: help! need throttle cable

yes. it's installed and works fine I am told. I haven't seen it yet. after the cable was installed they checked weight and balance and my empty weight CG was tail heavy so he wouldn't sign off the annual.

waiting until Monday and he is going to re-weigh it with different scales.

[astjp2]

Re: help! need throttle cable

Watch him measure eveything and the weigh and then verify his numbers. I dont think you can get the CG out if it is close to original configuration, I can put #200 in my baggage with full fuel and 2 fat people and be in CG 500 over gross but still in CG. Tim

[Guest]

Re: help! need throttle cable

Tim,

Mine is out and I have "taken out" (in a spread sheet calculation) every added item and even some repairs and can't figure how it ever was in the limit.

It may be that it had different tail wheel when it was new, I'll have to check that.

I am starting to think that the factory data (which was calculated) was just plain wrong, at least for n43972.

First time it was found to be out of range was after it was weighed in '83 up till that point folks never weighed it.

Seems like many are heavy and gained weight compared to the factory numbers I think mine gained 75 pounds!

I can't come up with 75 pounds of additions, may half that though.

Dave

[Guest]

Re: help! need throttle cable

Watch him measure eveything and the weigh and then verify his numbers. I dont think you can get the CG out if it is close to original configuration, I can put #200 in my baggage with full fuel and 2 fat people and be in CG 500 over gross but still in CG. Tim

Hey Tim,

What do you have for headliner, upolstery and so on?

Light stuff? none? heavy stuff?

Rear windows?

Thanks, Dave.

[astjp2]

Re: help! need throttle cable

no upolstry, only 5 instruments in the panel, Micro air radio, engine is a -8 and the empty weight is 910#, which is 180# over original certification, I added toe brakes and a second wing tank but the tank and plumbing is only about 5-10# and the wheels about 25-30. Empty CG doesnt mean crap in my airplane because with my fat but I only get 4.6 gallons of gas to keep it under gross. I can load it up with full fuel, 200# baggage and 500# of people and still keep it within CG, right on the edge but still within. I'm not going to go and start doing whip stalls but the aircraft can go from a-b fairly well. I am just using this as a comparison, If the empty GC is out, what is an IA supposed to do? Move the tail spring? cut out a couple of inches of fuselage? how about a 4" prop extension? Or maybe just use an oak skid and watch the smoke come out of his ears with that one. Some people lose perspective on what is necessary to fly safe, just keep it realistic is all I am trying to say. Tim

[Guest]

Re: help! need throttle cable

no upolstry, only 5 instruments in the panel, Micro air radio, engine is a -8 and the empty weight is 910#, which is 180# over original certification, I added toe brakes and a second wing tank but the tank and plumbing is only about 5-10# and the wheels about 25-30. Empty CG doesnt mean crap in my airplane because with my fat but I only get 4.6 gallons of gas to keep it under gross. I can load it up with full fuel, 200# baggage and 500# of people and still keep it within CG, right on the edge but still within. I'm not going to go and start doing whip stalls but the aircraft can go from a-b fairly well. I am just using this as a comparison, If the empty GC is out, what is an IA supposed to do? Move the tail spring? cut out a couple of inches of fuselage? how about a 4" prop extension? Or maybe just use an oak skid and watch the smoke come out of his ears with that one. Some people lose perspective on what is necessary to fly safe, just keep it realistic is all I am trying to say. Tim

Thanks Tim,

all you can do if cg is out of the EWCG range is make a loading schedule and it says that right in the TCDS.

So DJ'd IA (and all IA's) should be ok with just making a loading schudule.

Dave

[N74DV]

Re: help! need throttle cable

all you can do if cg is out of the EWCG range is make a loading schedule and it says that right in the TCDS.

I mentioned that to my IA. His comment was "well the TCDS says ranges are not valid for non-standard aircraft. So what exactly is non-standard?" I told him I could only assume that if my aircraft cames up tail heavy when empty it MUST be non-standard. Duh?! He kinda seemed to question that line of thought.... so hopefully if the re-weigh doesn't go well tomorrow he will allow a loading schedule.

Thing is with my IA is that if I can't show him in black and white in some FAA document that a loading schedule is OK he'll probably fight me on it. And when I say black and white.. I mean I'll need to find somewhere where it says something like

"It is permitted to create a loading schedule on a '46 Taylorcraft BC12-D in the latter part of January in Arizona that comes up 2.1" aft CG when weighed by ACME Company scales... yada yada yada"

you think I'm kidding? tomorrow we'll find out.

[Guest]

Re: help! need throttle cable

DJ,

A suggestion,

show him this line in the TCDS => When empty weight C.G. falls within pertinent range, computation of critical fore and aftC.G. positions is unnecessary. This is plain english anyone can follow it that has an IA

show him AC43.43-1B, section 10-17 and 10-15

show him page 5-4 from the weight and balance handbook that I gave you a link to it say this plus more on that page ;

"Empty-Weight CG Range
The fuel tanks, seats, and baggage compartments of
some aircraft are so located that changes in the fuel or
occupant load have a very limited effect on the balance
of the aircraft. Aircraft of such a configuration show an
EWCG range in the TCDS. [Figure 5-5] If the EWCG is
located within this range, it is impossible to legally load
the aircraft so that its loaded CG will fall outside of its
allowable range.
If the TCDS list an empty-weight CG range, and after the
alteration is completed the EWCG falls within this range,
then there is no need to compute a fore and aft check for
adverse loading.
But if the TCDS lists the EWCG range as “None” (and
most of them do), a check must be made to determine
whether or not it is possible by any combination of legal
loading to cause the aircraft CG to move outside of either
its forward or aft limits."

if he doesn't get that then call the FAA office and get them to help, this is basic A&P stuff

he should just know it, except for the no oil in the CAR certified planes' EWCG calculation I'd expect someone who just got their license to know this.

up till now I really can't find fault in his inspecting but if a guy does what you assert he will do then he just doesn't know what he is doing, maybe and hopefully he will do the right thing

Dave

[N74DV]

Re: help! need throttle cable

ahhhh... thanks for posting that excerpt. I will look it up and bring my copy of the AC 43.13 should I need to.

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: help! need throttle cable

DJ,
Dave has hit the key. You want the CG to be in the right range ON THE WING AIRFOIL. If you want, I can work with you and your IA to make sure your plane has the TRUE CG in the right place. I am an Aero Engineer with over 30 years experience and have seen more problems with people trying to use spreadsheets and books to find their CG than I can count. FORGET THE DIMENSIONS IN THE PAPERWORK!!!!! Every plane can be different! I have two Taylorcrafts and have worked on MANY MORE. Most have different distances from the datum to the wheel contact points. Lots of guys don't get the plane level or get the plumb line off. Some have used un-verified scales (CONFIRM it is accurate at a weight close to what it is measuring! Put the test weight in the same spot on the scale as the tire!)
I have never found a plane I can't find the CG on ACCURATELY.
Hank

[jgerard]

Re: help! need throttle cable

I have measured a couple of aircraft where the tail is not exactly parallel to the center line so when using it as a reference point to level the aircraft for weight and balance it would create false numbers. To double check that the aircraft is level compare the firewall to the horizontal tail. They should be absolutely 90deg perpendicular to each-other.