Calling all Experts!

[Noof]

I have a few question regarding a 1941 BC12-65 I am looking at.

Perhaps you guys can help me make an informed decision. I am looking to build tailwheel time, utilize the aircraft for sport pilot instruction, tailwheel endorsements and general fun!

Would a properly repaired left rear strut scare you away from a purchase? Documentation is in order, looks to be well done. Are new rear struts available? Spar repair on the left wing as well. Documentation in order.

Does not have impulse mags, and said to be difficult to start hot. Any thoughts? Starts first or second pull cold.

I have seen a T-craft on the web with what looks like additional acrylic below the windows in the door, creating a patroller style door. Can I just do this when I rebuild the doors?

I am going to do the annual with the current owner-IA who I know well. Any things to really look for? The plane has been tied down outside for two years. Flys once a week usually sometimes more.

Recovered in 1992, could use a rejuvenation.

300 hrs.on the A65 since major overhaul.

Asking price 16k plus $500 for the federal skis. Is this inline with other T-craft values?

Thanks for your help!

Eric Nuffer
A&P student and commercial pilot

[Ragwing nut]

Re: Calling all Experts!

I have a few question regarding a 1941 BC12-65 I am looking at.

Perhaps you guys can help me make an informed decision. I am looking to build tailwheel time, utilize the aircraft for sport pilot instruction, tailwheel endorsements and general fun!

Would a properly repaired left rear strut scare you away from a purchase? Documentation is in order, looks to be well done. Are new rear struts available? Spar repair on the left wing as well. Documentation in order.

Does not have impulse mags, and said to be difficult to start hot. Any thoughts? Starts first or second pull cold.

I have seen a T-craft on the web with what looks like additional acrylic below the windows in the door, creating a patroller style door. Can I just do this when I rebuild the doors?

I am going to do the annual with the current owner-IA who I know well. Any things to really look for? The plane has been tied down outside for two years. Flys once a week usually sometimes more.

Recovered in 1992, could use a rejuvenation.

300 hrs.on the A65 since major overhaul.

Asking price 16k plus $500 for the federal skis. Is this inline with other T-craft values?

Thanks for your help!

Eric Nuffer
A&P student and commercial pilot

1. Proper strut repair would not scare me but would condsider replacement cost in purchase price, new one is $700 from Univair
2. Spar repair i would be more concerned about depending on location, I don't like splices period, just my preference
3. Coils are weak on the mags, consider overhaul costs of 2 mags in purchase price. Nothing wrong with SF4 Bendix mags
4. BC12-65 should be a DeLuxe with wood doors. It will have plywood skins inside and outside giving the door rigidity so I would not reccomend trying to add a lower window to them.
5. Value seams fair without seeing the aircraft. Replacing the strut and overhauling the mags will and probably some other general items will cost you around $2K to complete, so as i said earlier, consider the costs in the purchase price. Rejuvination will cost $5K or more and recover will cost $15K or more.

Mike

[Noof]

Re: Calling all Experts!

Thanks Mike for the response.

The Spar Repair is out on the left wing outboard of the struts.

Thanks for the info on the weak coils.

I would do the recovering when needed.

Excited..but cautious,

Eric

[astjp2]

Re: Calling all Experts!

If the price is good, I would buy it. I have the same aircraft, and the doors on mine are the metal ones, the wood ones were optional. I am running SF-4 rebuilt by Savage Magneto...Call AL and talk to him. I had 2 original spars in one wing and it was cracked at the root, I probably had been that way since the 70's. Sounds ok to me. Have fun. Tim

[Arnold Wallace]

Re: Calling all Experts!

Hello Noof,
I think you have found an honest, well used aircraft. There is a fellow over at Harrison who has a spare door or two (metal) following a rebuild. I'm sure he has over 30K in his T-craft of about same vintage. I value my 1946 well over 20K, so make your decision slowly and with great thought...Happy Landings, Buzz

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: Calling all Experts!

Check the root end of the spars very carefully. A hit on the outboard end of the spars applies a HUGE load at the root and there could be additional damage at the attach end, especially if it was a fore and aft hit.
There are MANY spliced struts out there and they are ugly but very air worthy if done right.
I also have the wood doors on my 41 and didn't even know the metal ones could fit on a 41. You DON'T want to put transparency in the wood door bottom! I don't have a clue about windows in the bottom of the sheet metal doors except it looks like it really helps the view down. My 45 has tube doors and the windows are easy to put in those but the tube doors won't fit on my 41.
The price sounds reasonable to me for a flying plane.

[Ragwing nut]

Re: Calling all Experts!

If the price is good, I would buy it. I have the same aircraft, and the doors on mine are the metal ones, the wood ones were optional. I am running SF-4 rebuilt by Savage Magneto...Call AL and talk to him. I had 2 original spars in one wing and it was cracked at the root, I probably had been that way since the 70's. Sounds ok to me. Have fun. Tim

Wood doors were not an option. He states he has a BC12-65 which is a DeLuxe. If he has a BC65, then he has a standard with tube doors.

Mike

[Noof]

Re: Calling all Experts!

Thanks guys for the responses. I am already loving this forum.

I read the custom door post on this forum and thought that you could reinforce/cut and add lexan or acrylic. Is the wood considered structural and could you not recover the strength in the acrylic?

What about replacing with owner produced wooden doors to match the current ones, utilizing the existing windows which are fine? This seems like a good way to go. Any thoughts?

Harrison, Michigan?

Eric

[VictorBravo]

Re: Calling all Experts!

The strut splice is fine if it was done right, just like everyone else has said.

The doors I know nothing about, but they are optional anyway. Wood doors, tube doors, sheet metaldoors, paper mache' doors... that's a small detail comparitively. The doors should be the last thing on your list.

What Hank said about the spar root, now THAT is a big concern. You have to get in there and look at it no matter what the price is. Tell your IA and the seller that because there was a hit on one wing, it is a make or break item to visually inspect the spar end. This is not a five minute job, and make sure the seller does not try to rush you on it. It's not his ass on the line anymore.

ASSUMING your IA does not find any spar damage, then the magneto issue is simply a dollar issue. Many people only have one impulse mag and start the engine on that, so you can rebuild one mag with an impulse or replace it, and have an easy starting airplane. The cost of that should be factored in to your offer.

$16K in this day and age is not an awful price for a decent flying airplane, but only if the plane is all good and will stay all good for a while. If it were me (and it ain't), I'd counteroffer. Fabric work is enjoyable but it is not exactly an inexpensive way to spend a weekend. It will be a $5000 to $7,000 expense over the course of a month, and that's IF the airplane under the fabric needs nothing. Even a rejeuvenation will cost you time and money. The cost of buying one new mag or rebuilding it with an impulse if possible is more than a few hundred dollars.

ALSO, what kind of overhaul did they do? did they "field overhaul" it with old parts that are "within limits", or did they replace a lot of parts? Did the overhaul include the carburetor? That's a BIG one! Check out the cost of overhauling a carb these days, and KNOW that most carburetors have spent a LONG time since they were PROPERLY overhauled. If the carb is safety wired rich (most are), take off the wire and move the mixture lever. If it is hard to move, gritty, rusty or seized, then it was NOT rebuilt properly and is probably missing some parts. Many fly just fine that way as long as the lever is wired rich, but take into consideration that the carburetor was probably not rebuilt correctly.

At 16K, for my money, you want an airplane that is 100% mechanically sound, had a proper overhaul instead of a tailgate overhaul, has no major corrosion, has fabric that will last another 6 or 8 years, and has NO spar or structure questions. However, for 16K you cannot fairly ask for all that PLUS show quality paint, pristine struts, and no dents in the sheet metal. As with any airplane, it would be better to spend the same money for a ratty exterior and solid mechanical condition rather than a sexy looking one that you don't know whether the spar is busted or the carb is safe.

The logbooks will be an important source of information, but only if you know what you're looking for. You are looking for sketchy or minimal information. You're looking for a situation where a major operation was performed but the mechanic just scribbled in the bare minimum detail as if he was not exactly proud of the work. You're looking for things that just don't SMELL right. A half-page log entry from five years ago that goes something like... "Overhauled engine in accordance with overhaul manual... installed new gaskets" does not generate a lot of confidence for my money. However, a log entry from 1955 that says "repaired left rear wing strut, fishmouth splice" is probably OK because it was a very common repair and the repair has held for 50 years.

Basically, in my limited experience (there are FAR more experienced folks here than I), reading the logbook entry is like reading the description of an item on ebay. More than just WHAT is being said, HOW it is said tells you more about the guy and his credibility than anything else, and whether you trust him or not.

All that being said, if the spar root is not damaged everything else is not too hard to fix or upgrade. The bottom end of the A-65 engine is fairly bullet proof. There are two or three guys that do excellent carb rebuilds IF the one on the plane is not good. The mags are bolt-on items as are the doors. Owning and flying a Taylorcraft is something you will never regret in a hundred years. We'd love to have you in our group!

Bill

[Noof]

Re: Calling all Experts!

Kudos to this forum and the people that make it so awesome! Bill thanks for your wisdom.

I read through the log books about a month ago to do an AD compliance check. At that time I found the spar repair mentioned. I have the log books today and I am going to go over them again tonight.

The seller is one of my instructors and the program administrator here at the School of Missionary Aviation and Technology. He has worked in AK and overseas with his IA. I am a 35 year old former school teacher completing the one year maintenance program. I have total confidence in how the seller is representing the aircraft.

The doors don't concern me except in that they function pretty well still, however, I think it would be something I would do during my ownership.

As far as the covering goes, I will use our Maule tester to see where it lies. I would eventually recover the wings and get a good look at the innards. I loved my three weeks of covering we did here and I have built and covered many RC aircraft.

I am going to do some digging into the carb.

For what it is worth, the plane was completely "restored" in the late 80s by an EAA chapter and then it was sold to some of the members to form a flying club.

Regarding the mags...I will probably rebuild them myself with new parts. It sounds like I should install one with impulse couplings. Need to do more research on this.

So what about outside storage? It has been outside for several years.

I hope I don't smell decay!

Nothing is on paper yet and won't be until I do the annual with the owner. I am also considering having another pair of eyes look her over. I'm going to talk to him tonight, as he is local.

Cheers again!

Eric

[crispy critter]

Re: Calling all Experts!

Eric,
If it has the original small pre-war struts then I have one,maybe 2 perfect ones that I would sell for $250 each or $400 for the pair pluse shipping.

I have a few question regarding a 1941 BC12-65 I am looking at.

Perhaps you guys can help me make an informed decision. I am looking to build tailwheel time, utilize the aircraft for sport pilot instruction, tailwheel endorsements and general fun!

Would a properly repaired left rear strut scare you away from a purchase? Documentation is in order, looks to be well done. Are new rear struts available? Spar repair on the left wing as well. Documentation in order.

Does not have impulse mags, and said to be difficult to start hot. Any thoughts? Starts first or second pull cold.

I have seen a T-craft on the web with what looks like additional acrylic below the windows in the door, creating a patroller style door. Can I just do this when I rebuild the doors?

I am going to do the annual with the current owner-IA who I know well. Any things to really look for? The plane has been tied down outside for two years. Flys once a week usually sometimes more.

Recovered in 1992, could use a rejuvenation.

300 hrs.on the A65 since major overhaul.

Asking price 16k plus $500 for the federal skis. Is this inline with other T-craft values?

Thanks for your help!

Eric Nuffer
A&P student and commercial pilot

[Noof]

Re: Calling all Experts!

Kevin, the forward struts were replaced with new ones in 2002, I am not sure what type of aft struts are on the aircraft. I assume they are the original struts and this being a 1941, then they are most likely the prewar size. They are smaller then the forward ones. I may be interested! Did you replace yours with something different? Why sell?

Cheers,

Eric

[crispy critter]

Re: Calling all Experts!

I have owned and restored a few t-crafts and sometimes have extra parts come with them. I just happened to have some left overs.

[Forrest Barber]

Re: Calling all Experts!

Hi Noof , jump in get your feet wet....Michigan? stop by sometime, call me anytime 330 823-1168 330 495-5447 www.barberaircraft.com
all of the above advise is good, look her over very well...