FAA issues policy for non-ADS-B aircraft

[Guest]

Hi Brian,

The KTX2 will do both the ads-b out and transponder function if you connect a GPS position source to it.

TQ kept telling me and selling me that at Sun and Fun but that is not my interest in it. They sell a GPS position source for it but it costs about $1000.

Their package prices was $2340.

Dave

[RyanShort1]

The SkyBeacon would be an option, but I'm leery of its vulnerable wingtip location.

I'm running a pair of SkyBeacons on two Cardinals that we use for aerial photography. I suppose they could be a bit more vulnerable to ground loops, but other than that they seem like a pretty good little unit. I'd say just make sure your insurance will cover it in the event of an excursion.

[astjp2]

Tim,

So you're stating that although the uAvionix documentation lists the SkyFYX/FYX-Ext and Echo products as "Experimental and LSA aircraft only", they can be legally installed in any T-craft, including non-electric and electrified BC12D-85 and Model 19? If so, a combo of $959 EchoUAT transceiver, $489 SkyFYX-Ext WAAS position source/ADS-B In receiver, and $1299 TQ KTX2-S transponder provides UAT ADS-B Out and ADS-B In WiFi for $2747. Not cheap, but less expensive than other solutions for those of us who need to purchase a transponder, as well as ADS-B Out. The SkyBeacon would be an option, but I'm leery of its vulnerable wingtip location.

Brian

Yes

[Guest]

Tim, please elaborate, Dave.

[astjp2]

https://sandia.aero/product/stx-165-panel-mounted-transponder/

[astjp2]

Look at my 337 for the microair radio, it is not TSO'd but meets the requirements of a TSO'd radio: https://www.taylorcraft.org/docs/microair%20radio.pdf I just worded it so that I was following the manufacturers requirements. When I installed it, it was not TSO'd and they approved it. This is not an airliner or a Cessna 208, nobody at the FAA really gives a crap about our airplanes as long as we don't kill anyone on the ground or a passenger. If the installation is safe, and meets the intent of the reg's, and documented properly, it should get approved.

Here is the FAA letter on approved model lists...for more reading pleasure. If your aircraft is not on the AML, but is similar, that is good enough for the FAA, for a separate topic to discuss.

[astjp2]

Ok, here is some more info on the non-tso'd microair radio, it did meet FCC performance requirements and that was sufficient for installation which I am attaching a copy of. This sets the precedence for approving a non tso'd equipment in a 78 year old Day VFR airplane with no electrical system.

The Echo meets the performance of the TSO but is not TSO'd, so it should follow the same rules, I am attaching the spec. sheet for it.

You have to document your data, as long as it meets the spec for an approval and is documented as such, the field approval should be easy. 43.13 also is part of the data package. You could mount this under the seat, it weighs next to nothing and uses almost no power. If you have lights, I would use the wing tip one personally, just because it is easier to document.

I do remember that some regions dont even want 337's for radio changes unless its a major, some radio/electrical equipment swaps are only a minor now too.

[Guest]

Look at my 337 for the microair radio, it is not TSO'd but meets the requirements of a TSO'd radio: https://www.taylorcraft.org/docs/microair%20radio.pdf I just worded it so that I was following the manufacturers requirements. When I installed it, it was not TSO'd and they approved it. This is not an airliner or a Cessna 208, nobody at the FAA really gives a crap about our airplanes as long as we don't kill anyone on the ground or a passenger. If the installation is safe, and meets the intent of the reg's, and documented properly, it should get approved.

Here is the FAA letter on approved model lists...for more reading pleasure. If your aircraft is not on the AML, but is similar, that is good enough for the FAA, for a separate topic to discuss.

Interesting to me that the memo => https://vb.taylorcraft.org/filedata/fetch?id=182306

Is about approval for GPS source to ADS-b out device pairing, i.e. transmitter/GPS pairing.

With uAvionix skyBeacon there is no pairing because they are both contained in the unit.

That might make skyBeacon easier in some cases.

[woodmw]

Why wouldn't one choose the tailBeacon instead? The experimental version is available, and if I understand correctly, all ADS-B out must meet FAA standards. And it is $350 less than the pre-order TSO version.

I'm surely over thinking this, but when, in the eyes of the FAA, would the strobe part of the skyBeacon be installed? I would think when the electrical connect is made. Maybe when the strobe is activated in the software app. Hopefully not when the device is mounted to the aircraft and any part of it is activated, since the strobe is integral. Whenever it is installed, it will have to meet anti-collision lighting requirements.

http://www.whelen.com/pb/Aviation/System%20Requirements/Anit-Collision%20Systems.pdf

This would require skyLight when available, or some other wingtip strobe on starboard.

The amps are adding up.
Comm radio
Transponder
ADS-B out hardware
ADS-B in receiver
Display device for in data
Anti-collision lighting

If the same power source is used to start engine, flight planning on any cross-country will have to include electrons as well as fuel. No fuel, no fly. No electrons, no fly, at least and be 'FAA Legal'.
From uAvionix website about when system must be on:

https://uavionix.com/products/skybeacon/#faqs

From AOPA:

https://pilot-protection-services.aopa.org/news/2018/february/01/inoperative-anticollision-lights

One last thought. I could see the tailBeacon being more vulnerable to damage if plane is pushed back into something. The skyBeacon might be more out of the way. But when my plane is in the hangar, there are two paths from front to back. Under each wingtip. The Taylorcraft is low enough that I can see blood and scars on my forehead with skyBeacon/skyLight installed.

[Guest]

Why wouldn't one choose the tailBeacon instead? The experimental version is available, and if I understand correctly, all ADS-B out must meet FAA standards. And it is $350 less than the pre-order TSO version.

I'm surely over thinking this, but when, in the eyes of the FAA, would the strobe part of the skyBeacon be installed? I would think when the electrical connect is made. Maybe when the strobe is activated in the software app. Hopefully not when the device is mounted to the aircraft and any part of it is activated, since the strobe is integral. Whenever it is installed, it will have to meet anti-collision lighting requirements.
http://www.whelen.com/pb/Aviation/Sy...%20Systems.pdf
This would require skyLight when available, or some other wingtip strobe on starboard.

The amps are adding up.
Comm radio
Transponder
ADS-B out hardware
ADS-B in receiver
Display device for in data
Anti-collision lighting

If the same power source is used to start engine, flight planning on any cross-country will have to include electrons as well as fuel. No fuel, no fly. No electrons, no fly, at least and be 'FAA Legal'.
From uAvionix website about when system must be on:
https://uavionix.com/products/skybeacon/#faqs
From AOPA:
https://pilot-protection-services.ao...llision-lights

One last thought. I could see the tailBeacon being more vulnerable to damage if plane is pushed back into something. The skyBeacon might be more out of the way. But when my plane is in the hangar, there are two paths from front to back. Under each wingtip. The Taylorcraft is low enough that I can see blood and scars on my forehead with skyBeacon/skyLight installed.

See red above- I find this one interesting "According to 91.225(f) “Each person operating an aircraft equipped with ADS-B Out must operate this equipment in the transmit mode at all times.”".

Whereas the analogous phrase in 91.215 (c) regarding transponders reads; Transponder-on operation. While in the airspace as specified in paragraph (b) of this section or in all controlled airspace, each person operating an aircraft equipped with an operable ATC transponder maintained in accordance with §91.413 of this part shall operate the transponder, including Mode C equipment if installed, and shall reply on the appropriate code or as assigned by ATC.

There is one legal interpretation that compares wording in 91.215 and 91.225 regarding engine driven electrical systems that also makes notice of wording differences and points out that the meaning is supposed to be the same even with the wording diff.

I suspect that ADS-b out only needs to be on while in those spaces like teh transponder and have considered submitting the request for an interpretation but I am only curious. I plan to run ADS-b out all the time because I want to be see on iPads, pads, phones...

[LostnSpace]

[QUOTE=woodmw;n182323]Why wouldn't one choose the tailBeacon instead? The experimental version is available, and if I understand correctly, all ADS-B out must meet FAA standards. And it is $350 less than the pre-order TSO version.

I am going with the SkyBeacon because I have a strobe on the rudder and I don't want to loose that- thinking possibly keeping me from getting run over, see where a Cessna 150 landing in California and a T-28 didn't see or hear him and landed on the 150 killing the guys in the 150, hardly marked the T-28

[astjp2]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfSk-8mxs4s

[LostnSpace]

What he doesn't mention is after the flight test, some of that is to be on the 337 that gets filed, it's on the uavionic website

[Guest]

I installed the TQ KTX2 transponder and already had the skyBeacon wingtip unit.

Did my flight test on Tuesday July 2. Everything went well.

Sent in for my rebate.

The TQ KTX2 was $1300 plus cost of antenna and coax of about $150.

Skybeacon was $1870.

Probably spent $30 on circuit breakers & wire.

About $3350 total.

I picked these two unit because of ease of installation. Easy mount and no wiring needed between transponder and skyBeacon, I liked that.

Very happy with them.

Dave R

[astjp2]

Another ruling on ADS-B

ADS-B Preflight Requirement Issued

Russ Niles
July 14, 2019 9












Most pilots and operators will have another series of preflight checks to conduct when the ADS-B mandate kicks in on Jan. 1. The FAA says in a new policy statement it will be up to pilots and operators to make sure the gear will actually work along their predicted flight path. As part of the flight planning process, operators will be required to exercise “due diligence” in the form of a “preflight availability prediction” to make sure that an adequate GPS signal is available for the ADS-B Out to function properly for the full flight.
In most cases, the due diligence requirement will be satisfied by checking the FAA ADS-B Service Availability Prediction Tool (SAPT) for the intended route. Doing so creates a record in the SAPT system that the preflight work has been done. There are a few exemptions to the requirement but most flights will require that check. The check is targeted mainly at those equipped with non-WAAS GPS receivers because they’re more vulnerable to service disruptions that make ADS-B less reliable. The FAA also notes that if the GPS status changes while the flight is in the air or the SAPT itself is unavailable, pilots will not be sanctioned for noncompliance with the ADS-B requirements. Likewise, if weather or other circumstances require deviations into areas where GPS is unreliable, pilots will get a pass. When planned or known GPS disruptions occur, the FAA will issue a Notam.