plexiglass doors

[flying19973]

anyone have form 337 I can get a copy of for plexiglass my doors. Thanks for info . mine is a 41 think doors are metal. have copy of 337

[David Price]

Re: plexiglass doors

flying,
If you are familiar with Hans Hoffmeier in Canada , who has plexiglass doors on his BC12D. He flew his down the west side of the Americas to Chile and then up the east side of the America back to Canada.
I'm sure he can help you.
Google: "Around the World on a Shoestring."

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: plexiglass doors

Depending on your doors you may not need a 337 (also depending on your IA). A lot of people have put "transparent covering" on the tube doors with nothing but a log entry. As an engineer I see no problem with that. The Lexan or Plexi is just as good as fabric from an engineering point of view. Your IA will need to determine if it is from the FAAs perspective.
Sheet metal doors are open to discussion. The "right" cut outs are probably no problem, but I have never analyzed it. I have wood doors on the 41 and there is NO WAY you should replace the ply skins with plastic on those!

Hank

[PA1195]

Re: plexiglass doors

Whatever clear covering is chosen make sure it is UV/Sunlight resistant or it will eventually discolor and craze. Mine isn't and will need to be replaced eventually.

Gary

[Dick Smith]

Re: plexiglass doors

Lexan is extremely tough, but it is subject to "crazing" if exposed to gasoline. I was told by the supplier that the coating on Lexan would protect it from "crazing", but when you cut it to shape and drill holes for fasteners, you create uncoated surfaces. I've replaced Lexan with Plexiglas after dealing with damage caused by gas splashing or dripping. Here in Alaska we do much of our refueling using other than hose/nozzle setups. It's easy to get gas on a skylight when using a chamois/funnel setup in windy conditions...the same on the extended side windows or door cutouts, when checking for water in the wingtanks. Lexan is super strong, but I don't use it on my plane any more. Another point...when drilling holes for screw or poprivet attachment of your choice of glazing...leave room for expansion and contraction around the fasteners...otherwise you "will" be dealing with cracking of the plastic, radiating from the holes. Also, I found that it worked best to have the plane's door closed when attaching the glazing...at least when placing the sheet against the door and determining where to drill the first holes. The original door has a built-in "form" to fit the shape of the fuselage. The factory door holds it's rigidity because of the way it's riveted together, but when you remove the portion where the plastic sheet will go, the remaining metal frame goes a little "flat". If you lay out the plastic flat and fasten it to the door with screws or poprivets...when you close the door and latch it, the plastic is stressed when adapting to the "twisted" shape. Stress equals cracking around vibration. I closed the door and held the plastic in place while attaching the plastic at one corner with a Cleco...then helped the sheet to lay where it needed to, in order to match the frame "twist". If you "help" the plastic conform to the closed-door "twist" and THEN attach it, you will reduce built-in stress. Just a few thoughts...hope they help. Dick

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: plexiglass doors

Good info Dick. When I did the flat windshield and windscreens on my 41 I also made the holes oversize and put a small piece of model airplane SI fuel line over the machine screws. The tube was tight on the strews and a slight slip fit in the holes. The tube keeps the threads from ever touching the ID of the holes. I cut the pieces slightly shorter than the thickness of the Plexi. LOTS of work, but worked great. That was a LOT of little Silicon spacers! At least it kept the screws from falling out while you put all the nuts on.

Hank

[Bonanza91K]

Re: plexiglass doors

I am about to put PC inserts in my doors on my F21. I need them to see the
indicators on my Baumann 1500A floats. I haven't taken the door panels off to take a look but I'm assuming it should be no problem. Have to convince my IA it is no problem.

Jim

[akndrifter]

Re: plexiglass doors

Lexan is extremely tough, but it is subject to "crazing" if exposed to gasoline. I was told by the supplier that the coating on Lexan would protect it from "crazing", but when you cut it to shape and drill holes for fasteners, you create uncoated surfaces. I've replaced Lexan with Plexiglas after dealing with damage caused by gas splashing or dripping. Here in Alaska we do much of our refueling using other than hose/nozzle setups. It's easy to get gas on a skylight when using a chamois/funnel setup in windy conditions...the same on the extended side windows or door cutouts, when checking for water in the wingtanks. Lexan is super strong, but I don't use it on my plane any more. Another point...when drilling holes for screw or poprivet attachment of your choice of glazing...leave room for expansion and contraction around the fasteners...otherwise you "will" be dealing with cracking of the plastic, radiating from the holes. Also, I found that it worked best to have the plane's door closed when attaching the glazing...at least when placing the sheet against the door and determining where to drill the first holes. The original door has a built-in "form" to fit the shape of the fuselage. The factory door holds it's rigidity because of the way it's riveted together, but when you remove the portion where the plastic sheet will go, the remaining metal frame goes a little "flat". If you lay out the plastic flat and fasten it to the door with screws or poprivets...when you close the door and latch it, the plastic is stressed when adapting to the "twisted" shape. Stress equals cracking around vibration. I closed the door and held the plastic in place while attaching the plastic at one corner with a Cleco...then helped the sheet to lay where it needed to, in order to match the frame "twist". If you "help" the plastic conform to the closed-door "twist" and THEN attach it, you will reduce built-in stress. Just a few thoughts...hope they help. Dick

These are the doors that I want. Will B model doors fit an F19?

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: plexiglass doors

Don't know about the later models, but on the early ones you need to "finesse" the doors to switch between planes in the same year. You should plan on putting the Lexan on while the door frame is ON the plane with the door closed. If it turns out to have been unnecessary, well, you didn't loose much time. If you do them off the plane and they don't close smoothly, you will have to start over.
Murphy says put them together using the fuselage as a fixture.

Hank

[cvavon]

Re: plexiglass doors

I did the tube doors on 26658 with clear plastic the tube door has a flange that is the sealing surface.My door had sheet metal covering on them that was riveted on that is why there is all the holes on the frame.I used some of them for the PK screws that hold the plastic on.IA that i use said the door should be covered but he could not find any reference to what it should be covered with only covered.Also used a bead of clear silicone to seal it to the frame and it extends up under the window.

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: plexiglass doors

Be sure if you use Silicone that you SMELL it first! If it smells like vinegar DO NOT USE IT ON YOUR PLANE!!!!! There are two types of solvent used in silicone sealant, one is acid based and one is not. The one that smells like Italian dressing will corrode the heck out of your doors. The solvent is Acetic Acid (CH3COOH), also called ethanoic acid/carboxylic acid.

Hank

[Dick Smith]

Re: plexiglass doors

Re: Patroller Doors: I got to thinking about some of the doors I've seen up here. I've observed some that had a larger cut-out than the one on my plane. It seems to me that the door can be made a bit flimsy if you make the margins too narrow. You regain quite a bit of stiffness when you replace the Aluminum with the plexi or Lexan, but we all know a passenger can try closing (ie. "Slamming") the door three times before you can say "Stop"!! I measured my cutout this morning...the remaining aluminum is 4.25 inches wide on the top and 3.25 inches on the front, back and bottom. I turned the inside door handle around to point forward, thinking that in a crash you might slide over it a bit, rather than totally snag your arm on it. I fastened a loop made of seatbelt webbing in a gap between the upper and lower frame members with a screw. I can reach across, passenger or not, put my finger through the loop and latch the door by pulling on it "just so", easier than I can work the door handle and "feel" for the closing action. Also used the shortest poprivets that would go through the door skin, the plexiglas and a thin Aluminum washer( as used to hold down reinforcing tape on wing fabric). Here again...trying the create a method of fastening with proper set, but minimum height, to minimize the "rasping' effect in a pileup. I saw a patroller door with small screws and washer/nut fasteners that just looked and felt like it would really bite you. I've slid my arm along my own rivet type fasteners and and decided I would rather be bitten by them than by screws!

On the older style of door like Chuck Avon has, the square tubing is welded into a pretty rigid frame and seems to take a piece of plastic sheeting just fine. I've seen quite a few done like his, both one piece and two piece(with a hinged swingup window).

[astjp2]

Re: plexiglass doors

I don't see the point of the patroller doors on a T-craft, your legs covers the door bottom half so you cant really see out of them. I put insulation in my doors because at a 50 degree outside temp can cause it to become seriously cold on a person's leg...

[Dick Smith]

Re: plexiglass doors

Yeah, Tim, you're right about the visibility not being very good through your left leg! I've operated my plane both ways...with and without the thicker, insulated door. For my purposes, the patroller layout lets me gain about any inch and half more width for my left leg. The insulation I am counting on, at the temps you are talking about, takes the form of really good cold wx gear. If I ding the plane or it quits running, I need to be wearing clothing and footwear up to the task. I know when I close the door with heavy gear on, it's easier with the wider cockpit area. I operate a good share of the time without a passenger, so looking to the right through the door gives me a bit more visibility. We had a midair up here about a week ago...5 people in 2 planes all died. We have a lot of traffic around here during the tourist and hunting season, so the more visibility, the better. Sometimes, when I glance down, I can see my shadow on the ground/Water through the right door cutout...I like it when mine's the only one occupying that exact location! The rear window on the left side is not used very often, but the right rear window allows you to clear a larger area before and in a turn. If I had to keep only one of the window mods...it would be the skylight for sure. All of the windows make the plane just a lot more "airy" if that's the right word. I don't feel like I'm in a box...and I can see what's in the big baggage. Are the mods absolutely vital? Nope...Would I do it again? Yup. The skylight...without a doubt. Dick

Below on the left is a picture of a Taylorcraft you CAN see out of...! Of course it's experimental! The right pix gives a sense of the "openess" that I like.