Did Taylorcraft make a non deluxe model in 1941?

[Fooey]

Did Taylorcraft make a non deluxe model in 1941? I can't seem to find any info on this. Also were any deluxe models made after 41?

[3Dreaming]

Re: Did Taylorcraft make a non deluxe model in 1941?

The answer to the first question is, yes. My dad has a 41 deluxe. It was built in January 3 months before the type certificate for the BC12-65 model was approved. I owned and restored a 1941 BL-65 that was built in April 1941, so at least for part of the year the were building several different models. Another question along the same lines that I don't know the answer to, is were all the B*12-65 airplanes built deluxe models. I have never seen or heard of a B*12-65 airplane not being a deluxe when it started life.

In 1945 when production started back up for the civilian market they had left over parts from 1941. I am certain that they did build some deluxe airplanes from those parts.

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: Did Taylorcraft make a non deluxe model in 1941?

Yes to both. My 1945 was a Deluxe and had a lot of interesting features that did not pass on to the 46 models like a factory skylight.

In 1941 the big push was for the B-12 Deluxe which was available as the BF, BL or BC depending on the engine, but Taylorcraft also offered side by side trainer models, the BLT-65S, the BFT-65D the BL-65D and the BCT-65D. These came with dual wheels or "modernized stick" control (if someone has one of these it would be GREAT as a display, I would NOT recommend trying to FLY with it!). They also had 2 doors with adjustable windows, closed cowls wing position lights, strut cuffs and a first aid kit and fire extinguisher (I would also love to see some photos of those!). Trainers came in Metallic Blue fuselage with Yellow wings.

Interestingly on the same advertisement they talk about the Deluxe also having a tail wheel (did the trainers have a skid?) brakes, aux wing tank, compass (I did find out that a compass was NOT standard in the trainer!!!!) and the "Duotone" color scheme.

Hank

[3Dreaming]

Re: Did Taylorcraft make a non deluxe model in 1941?

I think most of the trainers had silver wings from the factory. At least mine did according to someone who knew the airplane when it was new. Also I don't think the "D" designation at the end of the model came about until 1946. On the cheap airplanes I think the skid was standard, with the tailwheel being an option. I think most had the option by 1941.

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: Did Taylorcraft make a non deluxe model in 1941?

There were probably very few planes sold with skids. The tail wheel option was pretty inexpensive if I remember correctly. As for the "D", it was in use prior to the war. Not sure exactly when it started, but all the paperwork for both my 40 and 41 list it as a "D" going all the way back to the factory. The "T" and "S" letters are something I had never seen except on factory papers. I "think" the "S" may have indicated a single door, but that is just a guess. The "T" was for trainer.

There are LOTS of minor changes that were put in on the line when they were being built and they didn't seem too careful how they documented a lot of things. Things like knobs, control wheels and even doors were changed without much documentation. There is a whole book that could be done just on how many different knobs, handles and control wheels and doors were used. An old timer once told me that there was a Studebaker plant down the road and they would get a lot of small parts from them. When the car parts changed, so did the Taylorcraft parts!

Anyone know for sure if the early 45 planes got the "blown" windscreens? When was the first plane done after the 4 piece flat panel ones from before the war?

Hank

[Ryan]

Re: Did Taylorcraft make a non deluxe model in 1941?

The "D" in BC12-D refers to the use of the model D tail configuration (two hinged rudder etc...). As for color tom is correct trainers were metallic blue with silver wings. At one point they also had a yellow stripe but that stripe had been eliminated by the post war years. Not sure when though.

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: Did Taylorcraft make a non deluxe model in 1941?

My 41 Deluxe is a "D", as with the 40, but both have original three hinge tail surfaces with the larger, but shorter, vertical tail. Nothing in a Taylorcraft is an absolute. They made changes based on what was in the parts inventory more often than based on what the standard was for that model.

The yellow wing reference is based on the factory description, but again, what they SAID they were doing wasn't always what they actually did. For me it is hard to tell from the old B&W photos if the wings were really yellow or silver. I never had a trainer, so I didn't ever dig that deep into the actual color that rolled out of the door.

Hank

[Fooey]

Re: Did Taylorcraft make a non deluxe model in 1941?

There were probably very few planes sold with skids. The tail wheel option was pretty inexpensive if I remember correctly. As for the "D", it was in use prior to the war. Not sure exactly when it started, but all the paperwork for both my 40 and 41 list it as a "D" going all the way back to the factory. The "T" and "S" letters are something I had never seen except on factory papers. I "think" the "S" may have indicated a single door, but that is just a guess. The "T" was for trainer.

There are LOTS of minor changes that were put in on the line when they were being built and they didn't seem too careful how they documented a lot of things. Things like knobs, control wheels and even doors were changed without much documentation. There is a whole book that could be done just on how many different knobs, handles and control wheels and doors were used. An old timer once told me that there was a Studebaker plant down the road and they would get a lot of small parts from them. When the car parts changed, so did the Taylorcraft parts!

Anyone know for sure if the early 45 planes got the "blown" windscreens? When was the first plane done after the 4 piece flat panel ones from before the war?

Hank

Maybe the "S" was for skid? Was the tail light on the 41 ever on the lower half of rudder or just ontop of stab?

Fooey

[3Dreaming]

Re: Did Taylorcraft make a non deluxe model in 1941?

S was for seaplane.

Hank, my dad's 41 deluxe doesn't carry a D anywhere in it's designation. Most pre war airplanes that I have encountered that have a D in their designation had it placed there by mistake over 60 years ago back when airworthiness certificates were issued annually.

[NC36061]

Re: Did Taylorcraft make a non deluxe model in 1941?

Another question along the same lines that I don't know the answer to, is were all the B*12-65 airplanes built deluxe models. I have never seen or heard of a B*12-65 airplane not being a deluxe when it started life.

Any and all B*12-65s (gross weight of 1200lbs v. 1150lbs for all B*-65 airplanes) were "Deluxe" models exclusively, there was no "Deluxe" version available in the lighter "Trainer" and tandem models.

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: Did Taylorcraft make a non deluxe model in 1941?

My 40 and 41 both have the tail light on the rudder. The pre-war rudders had more surface area but the hinge was shorter than a post war so they are not interchangeable (plus the pre-war rudders had three hinges and the post wars had two).
As is being shown in this thread, there seems to be no hard and fast rules on planes around the war. I think if they had parts to build a plane, they would use them. My 45 is FULL of parts from before and after the war. Even the engine mount and cowl are "just slightly" different from a pre-war and a 46. It was built early in 45 and was listed as one of the two prototype post-war Deluxe planes, but wasn't actually sold until well into 46. It appears to have been cobbled together from left over parts in many places. At first I thought it had been rebuilt by someone who didn't want to bother with getting the "right" parts until I found the other post-war prototype, and it was built the same way. Little things like sheet metal ribs with fluting instead of tabs, wood trim tabs and odd ball engine mounts all over the place. NEAT plane, but full of parts that look to have been hand made to get production started again.

Hank

Maybe the "S" was for skid? Was the tail light on the 41 ever on the lower half of rudder or just on top of stab?

Fooey

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: Did Taylorcraft make a non deluxe model in 1941?

That would make sense except that some of the factory papers show the "D" from before the war. I think the rules were played pretty loose and free back then. If you check Chet Peek's book you will see copies of documents talking about the "B" model before WW-II.
It doesn't have to make sense. Their goal was to sell planes, not have consistent paper work.

Hank

S was for seaplane.

Hank, my dad's 41 deluxe doesn't carry a D anywhere in it's designation. Most pre war airplanes that I have encountered that have a D in their designation had it placed there by mistake over 60 years ago back when airworthiness certificates were issued annually.

[3Dreaming]

Re: Did Taylorcraft make a non deluxe model in 1941?

That would make sense except that some of the factory papers show the "D" from before the war. I think the rules were played pretty loose and free back then. If you check Chet Peek's book you will see copies of documents talking about the "B" model before WW-II.
It doesn't have to make sense. Their goal was to sell planes, not have consistent paper work.

Hank

They did use a D designation before the war, but it was for the tandem model.

I think it would be a good exercise to measure the surface area of both the prewar and post war rudders. The vertical fin is certainly bigger on the postwar than the prewar. Without measuring they added about 4-5 inches of height and 4 inches of width to the leading edge. This was done to enhance directional stability. Because of the taller fin they had to lengthen the rudder to match the fin. If the width had gone unchanged you would have had more rudder area. They narrowed the rudder to offset the increase in length.

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: Did Taylorcraft make a non deluxe model in 1941?

I just laid a post and pre-war rudder on top of each other. Didn't measure the areas, but the pre-war looked bigger. It was shorter, but looked larger in total rudder area. I didn't lay the fins on top of each other to see if the total vert tail area was different. The pre-war planes seem to have more rudder authority than the post war planes to me, but with so many parts swapped back and forth on so many planes, there is no way to be sure now that the planes I flew had post or pre-war tails. I just didn't look at the time.

Hank

[Ragwing nut]

Re: Did Taylorcraft make a non deluxe model in 1941?

yes to both. I own my grandafathers 41 standard and i also have a 46 deluxe project. It is an early 46 with wood door frames.