Need an opinion from experienced engine rebuilders

[astjp2]

Re: Need an opinion from experienced engine rebuilders

Forward, using a burls box (from birchwood). Has a heat shield and if its good enough to mount a cessna battery on the firewall, good enough for me. Tim
burls box on an aeronca without the heat shield.

http://www.n1331h.com/_Media/battery_mount-2.jpeg

http://www.n1331h.com/_Media/battery_tray-2.jpeg

[PA1195]

Re: Need an opinion from experienced engine rebuilders

The original FWF battery boxes were enclosed by metal and probably sunk excess heat into the firewall/boot cowl. Also most were conventional heavy lead acid which took time to show a rise in temp. I've had a FWF AGM in Burl's on a PA-12-180 (Crosswinds STC) and never had an apparent (via signs of melting or shortened life) problem. The advantage was any pre-heat or flying in winter also warmed the battery some so it discharged/charged well, unlike aft mounted ones that stayed cold all winter if in a sealed box. The underseat mod or exposed AGM's will pick up some heat from the cockpit.

Still I'd put a remote outdoor probe on the FWF battery for the fun of seeing any rise in temp above the manufacturer's rated value. But that's just me and not any specified procedure.

Gary

[Guest]

Re: Need an opinion from experienced engine rebuilders

Are lithium batteries a potential fire hazard?

[PA1195]

Re: Need an opinion from experienced engine rebuilders

The Lithium Iron Phosphate (LiFePO4) batteries Tim suggested appear to have safety advantages over other Lithium-ion technology. Do a search to confirm them. One potential issue is employing a proper charging method to attain 100% recovery after discharge and maintain full capacity...http://www.powerstream.com/LLLF.htm. Tim's battery claims its internal electronics (BMS) help with that aspect.

Tim hopefully will respond as I'm sure he has reasons for recommending the technology. The Administrator may have questions or concerns however, as traditional AGM sealed batteries have a track record in aircraft, while this tech may be unproven in certified aircraft.

Gary

[astjp2]

Re: Need an opinion from experienced engine rebuilders

The aerovolts battery is lsa approved, the earth x is supposed to be a direct exchange with the odyssey pc680 and has a built in battery management. They are wicked light too. I am willing to be a Guenne pig to save 12 or more pounds. the price is also tolerable if it truly lasts 8 years. I don't think that anyone would even notice to be honest. Tim

[PA1195]

Re: Need an opinion from experienced engine rebuilders

Thanks Tim for the info. I support advancement in tech....and 12# loss is significant if it's accompanied by better service life and starting performance in the cold. Will the Administrator approve? If so get an STC if it's required beyond a 337.

Gary

[Guest]

Re: Need an opinion from experienced engine rebuilders

I'll show off my ignorance.

What does "lsa approved" mean is the pragmatic and application sense and what does it mean legally?

I am no familiar with it.

Dave

[PA1195]

Re: Need an opinion from experienced engine rebuilders

http://www.aerovoltz.net/lithium-experimental-aircraft-batteries/

http://www.batterymart.com/p-ltx680-earthx-etx680-battery.html?gclid=CMv0lu7a1MoCFQanaQodBmUIZA

For Experimental and Light Sport Aircraft (LSA). And as I mentioned earlier they do require some sort of either external smart charger or internal electronics to control their recharging activity. Likely over time they will be tested for certified aircraft use.

Now if they are not permanently mounted, for example: http://www.autozone.com/test-scan-an...p-starter-pack then who cares?

Gary

[3Dreaming]

Re: Need an opinion from experienced engine rebuilders

I'll show off my ignorance.

What does "lsa approved" mean is the pragmatic and application sense and what does it mean legally?

I am no familiar with it.

Dave

Without starting a shit storm it meets ASTM standards for installation in a light sport aircraft with an airworthiness certificate issued in the light sport category.

[Robert Lees]

Re: Need an opinion from experienced engine rebuilders

I'm going to post here of the positive experience a friend of mine has (I have no experience of these batteries other than his).

He flies a Christen Eagle (360 hp Lycoming) with a W&B issue, and has fitted a LiPo battery....I'll let him take up the story:

The battery is question is a Pulse P3 from http://www.fullspectrumpower.com/col...ducts/pulse-p3.

It appears to be working well following a few (self-imposed) hiccups on first fitting. The first time I fired up the engine there was a nearly a catastrophe - the internal resistance of the battery is so low that the alternator tried to give it all 60amps, and it took a few seconds for the overcurrent/voltage circuit to react. There was a strong burning smell but no lasting damage to battery or wiring. The solution was to turn down the voltage regulator to less than 14.4V. Long term I changed the alternator to a low output (8A) B & C type and that works fine.

The LiPo batteries like heat, so cold weather starting is a bit of an art which I have now mastered - put the radio/transponder on, walk to the clubhouse to sign out, and by the time I'm strapped in the battery has warmed itself up. It also gets warmer during the two or three twists of the key necessary to kick it into life. On a hot summer day it goes first time of course.

The discharge curve is very flat, so it maintains its oomph if several starting attempts are required. My first hot starting efforts were a bit clumsy and I punished the battery, but again no lasting effects and I'm now much better educated!

I'm very pleased with the installation.

Hope that helps! Note: The Eagle is Exp. Rob

[Guest]

Re: Need an opinion from experienced engine rebuilders

Without starting a shit storm it meets ASTM standards for installation in a light sport aircraft with an airworthiness certificate issued in the light sport category.

I have no intentions of starting any storm I am just not familiar.

Is it a big jump or little jump to get the FAA to approve use of such a battery in a standard category aircraft?

Does LSA approved mean that they are PAM parts?

Dave

[3Dreaming]

Re: Need an opinion from experienced engine rebuilders

I have no intentions of starting any storm I am just not familiar.

Is it a big jump or little jump to get the FAA to approve use of such a battery in a standard category aircraft?

Does LSA approved mean that they are PAM parts?

Dave

You were not even close to starting a storm. My response that I wanted to type could have started a storm, but I was able to hold myself back. There are some on the forum who don't agree with my view of what a LSA aircraft is, but at least the FAA is on my side.

[astjp2]

Re: Need an opinion from experienced engine rebuilders

The earth x has a built in electronics...that is why I prefer that one. it also fits in the same box/tray as a pc680. Tim

[astjp2]

Re: Need an opinion from experienced engine rebuilders

The earth x has a built in electronics...that is why I prefer that one. it also fits in the same box/tray as a pc680. Tim