How many?

[3Dreaming]

How many BL and BF airplanes have been incorrectly registered as BC aircraft after having their engines changed? I recently came across one where in the paperwork they even said they re-stamped the data tag.

The other question is how many 1200 pound gross weight airplanes are out there flying around with 13 rib wings on one or both sides?

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: How many?

LOTS! To both questions. Your BL or BF is and always will be a BL or BF. It took a while but I got BOTH of my planes records changed back to reflect the proper designations. BOTH have Continentals, but NEITHER had one when built. I think the records now show BF with Continental A-65-8 or something similar.

My 41 does have 15 rib "Deluxe" wings with the built up stick ribs (stock) and the 45 does have 15 stamped rib wings, but a LOT of planes have jumbled up wings.

Hank

Most IAs and A&Ps have no idea.

[3Dreaming]

Re: How many?

We walked away from a 41 B*12-65 with a 13 rib wing, and some of the clues makes me think it might have even been a model A wing.

Some of this stuff has been passed down over the years, but for the average IA who doesn't know Taylorcraft there is no easy way to figure it out. All the type certificate says for the change to a B*12 series airplane is some structural changes, but they don't list what they were.

[lawheelock]

Re: How many?

When the Feds issued a new airworthiness certificate in the late '50s they recorded my '46 BC 12D as a BC and it had been annualed all those years as a BC. I finally got a new AW certificate re-ssued with the correct designation a year or two ago with help from one of the FAA types in Alaska that lurks on this and the Stinson site. He contacted the local FSDO and gave me a name and I took all the paperwork with printouts from the FAA CD and they issued a correct AW Certificate on the spot.
There are some FAA good guys!
Larry Wheelock
'46 BC 12D N96179

[1938BF50]

Re: How many?

Mine is still listed as a BF. I have 13 rib wings. It came with one 13 and one 15. I converted the 15 back to a 13 at restoration. I was going for LIGHT and it finished around 680# if I remember correctly.

Larry,
Was the AK FAA guy Charlie? Great guy.

[1938BF50]

Re: How many?

Mine is still listed as a BF. I have 13 rib wings. It came with one 13 and one 15. I converted the 15 back to a 13 at restoration. I was going for LIGHT and it finished around 680# if I remember correctly.

[PA1195]

Re: How many?

Mine started as a '41 BF, and depending on paperwork, has bounced around for years as either a BF or BC. The Airworthiness paperwork and FAA lists it as a BC after an engine change. I won't get too concerned as to what it's called. Sometimes when we turn over a rock there's just more underneath.

Gary

[Bird]

Re: How many?

Mine was BL-65 but in the late 40's it was rebuilt (I believe to accident) with a deluxe frame and wings, so now I have 15 rib wings. I haven't figured it all out all I really know is I do not have a true blood-more like a Heinz 57

[3Dreaming]

Re: How many?

Mine is still listed as a BF. I have 13 rib wings. It came with one 13 and one 15. I converted the 15 back to a 13 at restoration. I was going for LIGHT and it finished around 680# if I remember correctly.

Larry,
Was the AK FAA guy Charlie? Great guy.

Mike, having a 13 and 15 rib wing is perfectly fine for your airplane. The 15 rib wing was part of the requirements to go to 1200 gross weight. A 13 rib wing on a 1200 pound gross weight airplane is a deal breaker for me.

[Ragwing nut]

Re: How many?

Only the deluxe had a 15 rib prewar wing as it had a 1200 gross where the standard did not. There is also a 15 rib post war wing using prewar ribs used in 45 before the stamped ribs were used. It is identified by having a post war tip rib and 3/4 wrap leading edge. Another oddity to the deluxe wing is it had a heavier drag or antidrag wire installed as well. I guess it was deemed unnecessary because it was not used in the later post war wings.

[3Dreaming]

Re: How many?

Only the deluxe had a 15 rib prewar wing as it had a 1200 gross where the standard did not. There is also a 15 rib post war wing using prewar ribs used in 45 before the stamped ribs were used. It is identified by having a post war tip rib and 3/4 wrap leading edge. Another oddity to the deluxe wing is it had a heavier drag or antidrag wire installed as well. I guess it was deemed unnecessary because it was not used in the later post war wings.

I think when the started building the 15 rib wings in December of 1940 all the airplanes got them, not just the deluxe. My 1941 BL65 was a trainer, and it had 15 rib wings. I am sure that they were original to the airplane because they had a matching serial number on a tag nailed to the spars. Also if you ordered a replacement wing for an earlier airplane you would get one off the assembly line, and not made special with 13 ribs.

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: How many?

I think the bottom line is 15 in place of 13 is OK, but NOT the other way around, unless you want to go through all the mess of using a weaker wing and the paperwork to deviate from the TC. I doubt anyone would worry about a 15 rib wing on a 13 rib plane except those of us who are really anal about originality. I would hope no one would try to use a 13 rib wing in place of a 15 on purpose, although I would bet there are a LOT of them out there!
If you DO have a 13 rib wing on a plane that was supposed to have 15, there are stamped ribs available to build up a correct 15 rib wing and a few of us crazies who actually want 13 rib stick rib wings for restorations of prewar planes. I would be happy to swap 15 good stamped ribs for 13 good stick ribs!

Hank

[fearofpavement]

Re: How many?

I think the bottom line is 15 in place of 13 is OK, but NOT the other way around, unless you want to go through all the mess of using a weaker wing and the paperwork to deviate from the TC. I doubt anyone would worry about a 15 rib wing on a 13 rib plane except those of us who are really anal about originality. I would hope no one would try to use a 13 rib wing in place of a 15 on purpose, although I would bet there are a LOT of them out there!
If you DO have a 13 rib wing on a plane that was supposed to have 15, there are stamped ribs available to build up a correct 15 rib wing and a few of us crazies who actually want 13 rib stick rib wings for restorations of prewar planes. I would be happy to swap 15 good stamped ribs for 13 good stick ribs!

Hank

So do all the the 13 rib wings have wood construction and the 15 stamped metal ribs?

[fearofpavement]

Re: How many?

I think the bottom line is 15 in place of 13 is OK, but NOT the other way around, unless you want to go through all the mess of using a weaker wing and the paperwork to deviate from the TC. I doubt anyone would worry about a 15 rib wing on a 13 rib plane except those of us who are really anal about originality. I would hope no one would try to use a 13 rib wing in place of a 15 on purpose, although I would bet there are a LOT of them out there!
If you DO have a 13 rib wing on a plane that was supposed to have 15, there are stamped ribs available to build up a correct 15 rib wing and a few of us crazies who actually want 13 rib stick rib wings for restorations of prewar planes. I would be happy to swap 15 good stamped ribs for 13 good stick ribs!

Hank

.................................................. ......................

So do all the the 13 rib wings have wood construction and the 15 stamped metal ribs?

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: How many?

The early "stick" ribs were metal a lot like the Cub ribs (NOT the same!). I don't know that wood ribs were ever used on the side by side planes (except maybe the Chummy). Anyone know for sure which planes had wood stick ribs? Seems Like a bunch of the war birds may have had them. There were also some planes used for Acro that had all wood wings, but they were not in the normal classes.

Hank