Transponder Opinions Needed

[M Towsley]

A buddy of mine with a 1928 Stearman, currently equipped with generator, battery and transponder, is wanting to remove the transponder but keep the generator and battery. We fly out of the same Class C airport and both of us utilize waivers to fly in this airspace. He has waivers for his L-2 and another aircraft. It works out well for us.

He would like to do the same with the Stearman. A 'knowledgeable guy' who is friends with his A&P/IA says he can just take the transponder out and fly. I thought you could not do this as obviously the system has plenty of electrical power to power the transponder and radio.

Can he do this? How can he do this if it is allowed? I know there are some really knowledgeable guys on here that will have an answer and I appreciate your time helping with this question.

[astjp2]

Re: Transponder Opinions Needed

Nope, if he has an electrical system then he needs one. I tried to get written waivers, SLC center and control, they laughed at me on the phone....so now I just say "negative transponder, no electrical system" and that has worked every time for controlled airspace. I now have a portable that I can put in the airplane to cross the border but I can pull it out to save weight. With a stearman, weight is not an issue, just stick in a microair, besides when they get this UAV thing figured out, we will all be required to have a transponder whether we have an electrical or not. They have developed ads-b squitters that run on a 9v and are the size of a pack of cigarettes so there will not be any excused not to have one. I can fit in your pocket...and works like a cell phone. Tim

[M Towsley]

Re: Transponder Opinions Needed

Thanks Tim, I was hoping you would jump in on this.

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: Transponder Opinions Needed

I think the regs say "Engine driven" electrical system. I was told I didn't need one even WITH an electrical system if the power was from just a battery or a battery and a wind generator.

Hank

That said, I WANT one of those little portable "Squitters"! Anyone have a link to any articles on them?

[astjp2]

Re: Transponder Opinions Needed

They are coming out of china, they were being made by a company in Anchorage called ADS-b technologies. The University of Alaska was a major player in developing the standard and technology that is now being implemented here and is going strong in China's new general aviation industry. Even snow plows and vehicles on the airports may be required to have them to prevent runway incursions...Tim

[astjp2]

Re: Transponder Opinions Needed

Sorry for the semantics Hank, when I meant electrical system I meant engine driven...Tim

I think the regs say "Engine driven" electrical system. I was told I didn't need one even WITH an electrical system if the power was from just a battery or a battery and a wind generator.

Hank

That said, I WANT one of those little portable "Squitters"! Anyone have a link to any articles on them?

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: Transponder Opinions Needed

I pretty much knew you knew that, but wanted it to be clear to those who haven't driven that bumpy road. The regs are too darned convoluted!

Hank

[3Dreaming]

Re: Transponder Opinions Needed

The applicable regulation is 91.215. It basically says you need a transponder to operate in class A, B, and C airspace. The engine driven electrical system pertains to operations within the mode C veil at a class B airport. The exemption that is allowed for operations without a transponder does not address the electrical system, but looks to be dependent on the ATC facility you are requesting it from.

[M Towsley]

Re: Transponder Opinions Needed

Tom,

I am a little confused by the comment on the electrical system as my exemption is based on zero percent capacity as per the form given to me by our manager of our air traffic control facility. Here is the form:

Transponder and Automatic Altitude Reporting Equipment Deviation Request Form

The information requested is for the purpose of documenting the inability to install a transponder and automatic altitude reporting equipment in an aircraft due to aircraft limitations or as justification for relief due to a pending installation. Operators requesting authorization to deviate from Section 91.215 b. (2) of the Federal Aviation Regulations for those reasons must submit the following requested information to the Manager of the Air Traffic Control Facility having jurisdiction for the Terminal Control Area at which the request applies.

Aircraft Identification:
Aircraft Type:
Aircraft Based at:
Aircraft Operator:
Address:
Telephone:

FOR RELIEF PENDING INSTALLATION
Provide a copy of the bill of sale or invoice showing proof of purchase of the required equipment.
The equipment is scheduled to be installed on Date: / /
Person to perform installation Name:
Address:
Telephone:

FOR RELIEF DUE TO AIRCRAFT CAPACITY
To be completed by a licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic.

I, ,
have inspected the aircraft identified herein and hereby certify that a transponder and automatic altitude reporting equipment as specified under Section 91.125 of the Federal Aviation Regulations can not be installed on that aircraft for the following reasons(s):

1 Electrical system capability is inadequate. Present capability is(0),
the minimum required is no electrical system.
0 Inadequate panel space due to aircraft design or the existence of other essential
avionics equipment.

0 Other (Specify) .

[M Towsley]

Re: Transponder Opinions Needed

The check-off boxes did not recreate when I copied the form but you can get the idea. Mine is due to zero capacity electrical system.

[3Dreaming]

Re: Transponder Opinions Needed

The check-off boxes did not recreate when I copied the form but you can get the idea. Mine is due to zero capacity electrical system.

OK, I quickly read through the regulation the first time and missed the second mention of the engine driven electrical system. I still contend that 91.215 doesn't limit the reason for requesting a deviation, but the controller handbook may limit them from granting a deviation for any other reason than they list on their form.

[M Towsley]

Re: Transponder Opinions Needed

Plus the difference may be I am based there, the waivers are good for a year. They grant one-time waivers often but the several non-transpondered aircraft on the field just obtain the waivers to make it easy on everyone.

[DanBrown]

Re: Transponder Opinions Needed

They are coming out of china, they were being made by a company in Anchorage called ADS-b technologies. The University of Alaska was a major player in developing the standard and technology that is now being implemented here and is going strong in China's new general aviation industry. Even snow plows and vehicles on the airports may be required to have them to prevent runway incursions...Tim

Here is the website: http://ads-b.com/LISTgallery3.htm
It doesn't appear that the small portable unit is approved for aircraft yet. Also the website doesn't have prices or specs that I could find.

[astjp2]

Re: Transponder Opinions Needed

I can't wait to say, "Negative mode C transponder, ADS-B compliant!"