Taylorcraft/Martin wire

[Guest]

Re: Taylorcraft/Martin wire

Taylorcraft wire is not stainless steel. It rusts.

[Robert Lees]

Re: Taylorcraft/Martin wire

Perhaps a more accurate description would be "corrosion resistant steel".

When I recovered my Taylorcraft, I bought a shank from Forrest Barber, and although NOS, there was no "rust" on it. My old wire I still have, and it's mostly serviceable.

[Mark Bowden]

Re: Taylorcraft/Martin wire

This is why it is good to find a Taylorcraft reference if possible, it may require a visit to Forrest's archives to see if there is a drawing with a call out. It very likely could have been music wire or from the plain wire steel family that music wire is part of. Stainless steel didn't see common, volume production until well after the war.

Stainless can easily rust. Stainless can exhibit its superior corrosion properties only when continually exposed to oxygen. Cover it up with something that doesn't let oxygen replenish the passive film like dope, fabric systems and paint and corrosion can happen. Still better than plain steels in nearly all severe environments.


However without a reference...

The cert for Martin clips on Aircraft Spruce is 302H alloy, PMA approved and in use on a lot of fabric applications, including ours. 302 has material properties like the music wire/plain steel wire. Coupled with the fact Martin Clip wire is 302H the case can be made it is ok to use as it is indeed already in use. And is the only known material reference in existence.

An owner produced shape (Taylorcraft) is equivalent or better to Martin wire as it is same Martin material but actually conforms to the Type designed shape.

The original wire could also have been 200 series stainless as it was an early alloy using different elements for corrosion resistance due to limited availability of nickel during the war. It was replaced by 302 in volume after the war and the current stainless alloy family is derived from 302's chemistry. 200 series has less corrosion resistance than the higher 3XX alloys.

[lfries]

Re: Taylorcraft/Martin wire

A friend just got back from Texas. He was supervising the loading of a aviation shop and came upon some Taylorcraft parts. He took a picture of a wire tag . Give me your email address and I will send a picture to you. I can't attach a picture from my iPad. He gave me a parking brake cable set up and the a tailwheel. Also several blue print type drawings.

[Mark Bowden]

Re: Taylorcraft/Martin wire

Another thing that would be really, really good to do for they guys that have any Taylorcraft wire stock.

If there is a Taylorcraft part number tag or any kind of label that identifies it as Taylorcraft is to take a photo of the shape of the retention feature on a blank sheet of paper next to a 6 inch scale and the tag attached to the wire and post on the website for historical documentation.

If there is no original Taylorcraft drawing left or a tag on the NOS parts then the only thing left to say what a Taylorcraft design is, would be an aircraft restoration with photo documentation during disassembly as the wires are removed.

Same for the restoration projects underway or completed in recent years if you have photo documentation of what was removed and reused, keep and post. Rob, you have some good ones on your website but the more the better for reference.

[Robert Lees]

Re: Taylorcraft/Martin wire

A quick refer back to Lloyd's post above, Mark. If he has a tag, that would be useful (Lloyd & I are old friends; we flew together in California in 1999)

[cvavon]

Re: Taylorcraft/Martin wire

THE STORY THAT i WAS TOLD WHEN I GOT THE ROLL GIVEN TO ME WAS THE MAN BOUGHT A LARGE AMOUNT OF TAYLORCRAFT PARTS AT THE AUCTION IN 1947 OR THERE ABOUT.HE GAVE IT TO ME IN 2011 AT THE LLT FLY-IN AT DAYTON MORAINE OHIO.AND HE HAD A COUPLE ROLLS AND GAVE ME ONE.IT IS STILL IN THE PACKAGE FROM THE FACTORY HE SAID NO TAGS OR MARKINGS JUST WRAPPED IN BROWN PAPER.HE SAID THERE IS ENOUGH TO DO A PLANE IN THE ROLL.

[Guest]

Re: Taylorcraft/Martin wire

Chuck,

You have enough wire there for 5 planes I bet. I recall the rolls were close to 1000' and 200' will do a plane.

Dave

[Guest]

Re: Taylorcraft/Martin wire

Oh!

I am wrong. I am wrong. I am, wrong.

The rust that I saw is not from the wire itself but apparently from a wire that is wrapped around the roll to hold it together. The wrap wire has been moved thru handling and left it's rust deposits behind giving the appearance that the wing wire rusted. My bad.

Also Chuck I realize that I may have much larger rolls than you. When I went to look for the rust I see it is big and I also have a smaller roll perhaps like yours. What is the diameter of the roll? The big ones are 18".

I noticed that the wire is magnetic.

Dave

[lfries]

Re: Taylorcraft/Martin wire

Rob, I didn't realize it was that long ago.

[lfries]

Re: Taylorcraft/Martin wire

Hope this comes thru.

[Robert Lees]

Re: Taylorcraft/Martin wire

That's Martin wire, Lloyd, not Taylorcraft wire.
(and yes, it was that long ago that we flew)

It has a significantly different profile & pitch. The pictures a few posts above by Dave Rude show the proper stuff.

Rob

[MBednarek]

Re: Taylorcraft/Martin wire

All,

I'm a new here, having recently bought a '46 BC-12D1 through a "hanger and all contents" combined sale at a price I could simply not resist even after taking into account the bird had been sitting for a number of years and would need recovering, new windshield and a possible engine overhaul (did include a new complete set of sealed wing struts).

Since I will be recovering, I'm very interested in this Martin/Taylorcraft wire thread as the aircraft's last recover utilized rib stitches. I stripped off the fabric from the first wing panel last weekend and found, despite the last recover being 30+ years, only a couple of failed rib stiches on the tip rib that appeared to be more due to hanger rash.

I have attached a copy of the Aeronca drawing 2-880 detailing the clips that were used as an alternative to PK/screws in the 7AC/11AC. I do not know if the dimensions are the same as for the Martin/Taylorcraft wire, but the drawing does highlight critical dimensions for the attachment barbs. Hope this may be of assistance.

Mike Bednarek
Centerville, Ohio

[astjp2]

Re: Taylorcraft/Martin wire

I would rib stitch, its much easier on the ribs. see the 337 that was posted in the tech references section. Tim

[Guest]

Re: Taylorcraft/Martin wire

When I got my first t-craft in 1968 it was a 1939 BL-65 basket case and along with the paperwork that came with it was "service bulletin" or something like that from Taylorcraft or perhaps the CAA that required the ribs to be stitched because the had not been at the factory and the upper surface fabric had been ballooning up.

Sort of humorous IMHO.

Dave