Taylorcraft/Martin wire

[Stumpy]

I've looked through various earlier threads on this venerable topic...getting ready to start a replacement set of wings in earnest, and it looks like I'm about half a wing short on wire.

Soooo...I have a machinist friend who is semi-retiring. He's somewhat brilliant at coming up with simple solutions in an old-school sort of way. He was visiting the aerofield the other day and this topic came up. As one of his (supposedly) final efforts he expressed interest in coming up with a relatively simple mechanical contrivance that could produce proper Taylorcraft wire without blisters.
I know Hank and several others have expressed an interest in a project like this in the past.

I have some wire, extra ribs for testing fit, pictures posted from earlier threads, etc. Just trying to gather as much info as possible to get him started. Would like to confirm a few things if possible, like:

Data on original wire, as in gauge, type-specs, etc.

Picture, drawing, or whatever of original mfg device.

Anything else tribe members might think of that's helpful.

Thanks folks...oh yeah if this takes him a while I might be looking for a little bit of wire to finish after all, need to go through and see how much I have that's serviceable first.

[skip]

Re: Taylorcraft/Martin wire

Stumpy,

You said that you had looked through old posts, so you undoubtedly found mine from a year ago (A Year? Boy! How time flys!)

http://vb.taylorcraft.org/showthread.php?10194-Martin-Wire-Revisited

But to emphesize one of my findings, The three wire types I used had different "critical dimensions" from the back of the barb to the hook in the next barb. They were:
NOS: 2.830"
Old: 2.875"
AircraftSpruce: 2.885"
Just by the math, the best distance should be 3" - 1/8" hole = 2.875"

I THINK that the reason that the NOS wire that I ended up using was so much better than either the old wire that had been in the wing for 20 years or the new Aircraft Spruce wire is that it was bent to the shorter 2.830" dimension so that it stretches flat when installed. My old wire had "relaxed" to the nominal 2.875 dimension, and the AS wire is just a bit too long at 2.885" to lay flat.

If you are going to make up a tool to turn out the wire I recomend that the target dimension should be the 2.830" rather than the nominal 2.875".

Good Luck! this is a really needed project!

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: Taylorcraft/Martin wire

If his "machine" is going to bend the wire around a set of retractable posts I would suggest that the base be adjustable to change the length between the barbs. That way the tool could be adjusted to change the spacing and with a good rib the spacing could be made perfect. Having worked around some machines that did similar work I would bet that an automatic wire bender was originally built to make the wire and the spacing of the holes was made to match the Taylorcraft wire, not the other way around. I can see where the factory could have tried to do just what we are talking about and couldn't get the wire just like what was already available. Simple solution was to just change the holes rather than make a new tool.

Hank

[articfox]

Re: Taylorcraft/Martin wire

Hi gang.

Trying to finish building up my BC12d/F19. Looking for stock Wing wire. Is any available out there?

[articfox]

Re: Taylorcraft/Martin wire

Hi gang.

Trying to finish building up my BC12d/F19. Looking for stock Wing wire. Is any available out there?

[waltermrich]

Re: Taylorcraft/Martin wire

You may have a hard time finding it, The wing wire sold by Aircraft Spruce for Taylorcraft does not have the right hole spacing, do not buy it , you will have to return it unless you want to redrill new holes in your ribs. ( Not a good idea) . I wound up getting an approval for fabric rivets, from Terry Bowden, our DAR, they worked splendidly. and cost was comparable to the wire . Good luck.

[M Towsley]

Re: Taylorcraft/Martin wire

There was a batch of it on Ebay recently, but is now gone. Not sure if it was Spruce, or not. There is another Ebay listing here: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Martin-Fabri...tVl-3I&vxp=mtr

Make sure it has the right spacing, though.

[Robert Lees]

Re: Taylorcraft/Martin wire

That looks like Martin wire, not Taylorcraft wire, so Walter is correct.

[articfox]

Re: Taylorcraft/Martin wire

Roger.

I had a whole pile of the wrong stuff that came with the the project and I have about a quarter of the t wire. Where I'm at I can't find a good example of what the rivers/screws look like. I guess if I can't find it I'll go down one of the other paths like the rivets. I see all the threads on this subject. Wow.

[Ray36048]

Re: Taylorcraft/Martin wire

Whatever happen to the STC SA1-217? This was in the tech section a few years ago. This is a very old STC to use PK screws in place of the wires. There is also a technical letter to replace the screws with pop rivets. This is an STC that is on the books with the FAA. But, the owner is long long gone. It would be nice if someone could officially pick this up for use by Taylorcrafter's. I have a copy, if someone knows how to get in the tech section.

[Mark Bowden]

Re: Taylorcraft/Martin wire

I would offer a suggestion on getting wire made as a cost effective and fast solution is likely readily available. CNC wire benders and companies that do this are common. I know of a few. Machines can be as fast as multiple bends per second. There is no setup or tooling required other than loading the wire spool and gripper spools. There is probably a minimum run length but it shouldn't be hard to meet for a smaller shop. They would be cut to length too.

If someone can get me a sketch of the dimensions of the V and Taylorcraft style radius I can ask them for a quote. What's the original wire alloy?

This could be an owner produced part. The bend challenge may be the full 180 degree radius of the Taylorcraft design vs. the more subtle Martin wire feature. Spacing tolerance of the features would be +/- 0.010. Even if the bend is too much you could get the spacing right on a Martin feature and the fit would be proper vs. the Aircraft Spruce problem,

If your machinist friend is looking for a project maybe there is something more of a challenge for his talents and artistry? Hate to see talent like that reproducing what is almost a commodity process.

Mark

[M Towsley]

Re: Taylorcraft/Martin wire

Wow, Mark. Though I have never been in-need and hope to never be in-need you apparently have an answer, and potential source, that has been a problem for years to Taylorcraft restorers. I hope this comes to fruition for Mr. 'Fox' and others. All it takes is the right person in the right place, great to hear.

[cvavon]

Re: Taylorcraft/Martin wire

Mark would a peace of new wire help to get it run as I am sitting on a roll of new original Taylorcraft wire and would send a peace to you.

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: Taylorcraft/Martin wire

I would think we could get a bunch of us to commit to buying enough for two wings each (almost anyone with a recover project in their future plans). If the price is anywhere near reasonable you could tell the manufacturer the size of the order up front for the quote.

I would certainly like enough for two wings.

Hank

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: Taylorcraft/Martin wire

I am sure there are many of us who could provide a rib or do the spacing verification prior to making the full run too. I have some ribs to run a test on if needed.

Hank