SportPilot and preventative maintenance.

[3Dreaming]

Re: SportPilot and preventative maintenance.

Was it done on purpose, or are our Overlords really that stupid? That seams to be one heck of a brain fart. How many retirees, or soon to be, let their PP medical lapse and fly champs, t-crafts, cubs..etc. I bet it's hundreds if not thousands. I also bet most think they still operate on a PP for maintenance, when by the rules, that don't matter.

A private pilot with a lapsed medical is in fact still the holder of a private pilot certificate an able to do PM an a type certified airplane operated by him/her. While flying they are operating under sport pilot privileges.

Marty, if you are going to try and get it changed ask for something like recieved and logged training from an A&P in the PM action to be performed prior to being able to complete the action by yourself.

[M Towsley]

Re: SportPilot and preventative maintenance.

Tom,

Just curious, why? Is this just to satisfy the feds that a 'simple' sport pilot can accomplish the maintenance. Why ask for this when a PP and above can do it without logged training?

[Nefj40]

Re: SportPilot and preventative maintenance.

A private pilot with a lapsed medical is in fact still the holder of a private pilot certificate an able to do PM an a type certified airplane operated by him/her. While flying they are operating under sport pilot privileges.

Thanks.

[3Dreaming]

Re: SportPilot and preventative maintenance.

Tom,

Just curious, why? Is this just to satisfy the feds that a 'simple' sport pilot can accomplish the maintenance. Why ask for this when a PP and above can do it without logged training?

Marty, when the sport pilot rules went into effect they impacted many other regulations. This was one of thase regulations. I'm not saying it is right, but that's the way it is.

[M Towsley]

Re: SportPilot and preventative maintenance.

Tom, you misunderstood what I was asking. I was wondering why you wanted me to ask for this in particular. Sorry I wasn't clear about it. "recieved and logged training from an A&P in the PM action to be performed prior to being able to complete the action by yourself".

Why not just ask them to have it the same as Private Pilot and above? Thanks!

[3Dreaming]

Re: SportPilot and preventative maintenance.

Marty, I think it would work better for getting the FAA to make the change to allow sport pilots to do PM. Maybe you should just ask to be allowed to work on sport pilot eligble aircraft. Just adding sport pilot to 43. like a private pilot or above would allow a sport pilot to do PM on a King Air if they owned one even though thay can't fly it.

[M Towsley]

Re: SportPilot and preventative maintenance.

I see your point, just wondered if you had a specific reason for it. Thanks. It needs to be more than just me asking for it, though. I am a firm believer in "You never know unless you ask".

[RyanShort1]

Re: SportPilot and preventative maintenance.

I think it's about time for some sort of organization - NOT like AOPA or EAA, for sport pilots and aircraft owners to have some grass-roots representation.

Ryan

[otrcman]

Re: SportPilot and preventative maintenance.

Tom, you misunderstood what I was asking. I was wondering why you wanted me to ask for this in particular. Sorry I wasn't clear about it. "recieved and logged training from an A&P in the PM action to be performed prior to being able to complete the action by yourself".

Why not just ask them to have it the same as Private Pilot and above? Thanks!

Marty,

Tom's suggestion is very similar to a regulation that currently governs A&P's. As a mechanic, I'm not supposed to perform any maintenance that I have not performed in the past under the supervision of another mechanic who has that experience. Since that is the FAA's current thinking regarding A&P's, then I would think it would be an easier sell regarding Sport Pilots as well. The Private Pilot regulation is probably the one they would like to change, considering there is no prior experience requirement for PP's.

Dick.

[VanDy]

Re: SportPilot and preventative maintenance.

Its not.

far 43 Appendix A (c) 6: (6) Lubrication not requiring disassembly other than removal of nonstructural items such as cover plates, cowlings, and fairings (oil is a lubricant )
and
43 appendix A (c) 23: Cleaning or replacing fuel and oil strainers or filter elements.

its all in how you read it!

[astjp2]

Re: SportPilot and preventative maintenance.

Marty, no one can perform any type of maint. unless they have been properly trained, you do not need to log it but you must be qualified to perform the task.
Tim

Tom,

Just curious, why? Is this just to satisfy the feds that a 'simple' sport pilot can accomplish the maintenance. Why ask for this when a PP and above can do it without logged training?

[astjp2]

Re: SportPilot and preventative maintenance.

FAR 1
Preventive maintenance means simple or minor preservation operations and the replacement of small standard parts not involving complex assembly operations.
FAR part 43 appendix a, changing oil is under lubrication...
(c) Preventive maintenance. Preventive maintenance is limited to the following work, provided it does not involve complex assembly operations:

(1) Removal, installation, and repair of landing gear tires.

(2) Replacing elastic shock absorber cords on landing gear.

(3) Servicing landing gear shock struts by adding oil, air, or both.

(4) Servicing landing gear wheel bearings, such as cleaning and greasing.

(5) Replacing defective safety wiring or cotter keys.

(6) Lubrication not requiring disassembly other than removal of nonstructural items such as cover plates, cowlings, and fairings.

(7) Making simple fabric patches not requiring rib stitching or the removal of structural parts or control surfaces. In the case of balloons, the making of small fabric repairs to envelopes (as defined in, and in accordance with, the balloon manufacturers' instructions) not requiring load tape repair or replacement.

(8) Replenishing hydraulic fluid in the hydraulic reservoir.

(9) Refinishing decorative coating of fuselage, balloon baskets, wings tail group surfaces (excluding balanced control surfaces), fairings, cowlings, landing gear, cabin, or cockpit interior when removal or disassembly of any primary structure or operating system is not required.

(10) Applying preservative or protective material to components where no disassembly of any primary structure or operating system is involved and where such coating is not prohibited or is not contrary to good practices.

(11) Repairing upholstery and decorative furnishings of the cabin, cockpit, or balloon basket interior when the repairing does not require disassembly of any primary structure or operating system or interfere with an operating system or affect the primary structure of the aircraft.

(12) Making small simple repairs to fairings, nonstructural cover plates, cowlings, and small patches and reinforcements not changing the contour so as to interfere with proper air flow.

(13) Replacing side windows where that work does not interfere with the structure or any operating system such as controls, electrical equipment, etc.

(14) Replacing safety belts.

(15) Replacing seats or seat parts with replacement parts approved for the aircraft, not involving disassembly of any primary structure or operating system.

(16) Trouble shooting and repairing broken circuits in landing light wiring circuits.

(17) Replacing bulbs, reflectors, and lenses of position and landing lights.

(18) Replacing wheels and skis where no weight and balance computation is involved.

(19) Replacing any cowling not requiring removal of the propeller or disconnection of flight controls.

(20) Replacing or cleaning spark plugs and setting of spark plug gap clearance.

(21) Replacing any hose connection except hydraulic connections.

(22) Replacing prefabricated fuel lines.

(23) Cleaning or replacing fuel and oil strainers or filter elements.

(24) Replacing and servicing batteries.

(25) Cleaning of balloon burner pilot and main nozzles in accordance with the balloon manufacturer's instructions.

(26) Replacement or adjustment of nonstructural standard fasteners incidental to operations.

(27) The interchange of balloon baskets and burners on envelopes when the basket or burner is designated as interchangeable in the balloon type certificate data and the baskets and burners are specifically designed for quick removal and installation.

(28) The installations of anti-misfueling devices to reduce the diameter of fuel tank filler openings provided the specific device has been made a part of the aircraft type certificiate data by the aircraft manufacturer, the aircraft manufacturer has provided FAA-approved instructions for installation of the specific device, and installation does not involve the disassembly of the existing tank filler opening.

(29) Removing, checking, and replacing magnetic chip detectors.

(30) The inspection and maintenance tasks prescribed and specifically identified as preventive maintenance in a primary category aircraft type certificate or supplemental type certificate holder's approved special inspection and preventive maintenance program when accomplished on a primary category aircraft provided:

(i) They are performed by the holder of at least a private pilot certificate issued under part 61 who is the registered owner (including co-owners) of the affected aircraft and who holds a certificate of competency for the affected aircraft (1) issued by a school approved under § 147.21(e) of this chapter; (2) issued by the holder of the production certificate for that primary category aircraft that has a special training program approved under § 21.24 of this subchapter; or (3) issued by another entity that has a course approved by the Administrator; and

(ii) The inspections and maintenance tasks are performed in accordance with instructions contained by the special inspection and preventive maintenance program approved as part of the aircraft's type design or supplemental type design.

(31) Removing and replacing self-contained, front instrument panel-mounted navigation and communication devices that employ tray-mounted connectors that connect the unit when the unit is installed into the instrument panel, (excluding automatic flight control systems, transponders, and microwave frequency distance measuring equipment (DME)). The approved unit must be designed to be readily and repeatedly removed and replaced, and pertinent instructions must be provided. Prior to the unit's intended use, and operational check must be performed in accordance with the applicable sections of part 91 of this chapter.

[M Towsley]

Re: SportPilot and preventative maintenance.

So, Tim, you are saying every PP and above has been trained in performing preventative maintenance? I disagree that is the case in real life.

[astjp2]

Re: SportPilot and preventative maintenance.

No, but they need to be trained before they perform any preventative manit. which the regs say they must have before conducting the task... if they have not been trained, they are in violation. Its not really enforced but it is there. Tim

So, Tim, you are saying every PP and above has been trained in performing preventative maintenance? I disagree that is the case in real life.

[Guest]

Re: SportPilot and preventative maintenance.

far 43 Appendix A (c) 6: (6) Lubrication not requiring disassembly other than removal of nonstructural items such as cover plates, cowlings, and fairings (oil is a lubricant )
and
43 appendix A (c) 23: Cleaning or replacing fuel and oil strainers or filter elements.

its all in how you read it!

Interesting read. I don't read it that way but you may be correct.

I have asked this question to the FAA and they have never quoted item 6 as the reason. They merely scoff about how one must use common sense. Belittling the questioner is a sure sign of not knowing the answer so I dismiss it.

Other simple things like refueling or washing and a/c are not listed anywhere that I recall. I may have missed them or forgotton.

I have wondered if oil change may have been considered as trivial as refueling?

Dave