4 point, 5 point belt recomendations

[Hank Jarrett]

I am planning to order a new set of belts for the 41 soon and there seems to be several different configurations for shoulder harness' available. Since I have never tried all of them, especially in a tight Taylorcraft cockpit, I could use some input from those who have worn them.

First, 5 point compared to 4. Can you even attach the 5th belt and would it do any good?

Shoulder harness to a single point behind the head or two straps going back parallel. The ones that join at a single point behind the head look like they would pull the shoulder harness up against your neck and that would get irritating after a while.

Shoulder harness' around lap belt vs separate end fittings that the latch goes through. Most of the belts systems I have seen have metal shoulder harness fittings that are placed over the male lap belt before it is put with the female part of the lap belt. This pulls the shoulder harness' to a single point at the buckle. There are a lot of belts that have the lower shoulder harness ends around the actual belt so they are further apart. That “looks” more comfortable, but if they are sewn in place you have GOT to wear the shoulder harness' all the time (kind of a good thing in my opinion). Is it a good thing? I have long arms and don't think I will have any problems reaching the panel with the shoulder harness like some I have seen with shorter arms.

Any problems with any of the types of latches? The really new ones are Camlock latchs (twist to release), with the military type lever latch on some of them. I have also seen the snap in, push button latch (auto type) and the flat plate lift latch (airline type) like the ones in my plane when I bought it (that wouldn't work with the shoulder harness).

Anyone open for a new discussion topic? I am getting close to flying again and want new belts before I start.

Hank

[M Towsley]

Re: 4 point, 5 point belt recomendations

Hank,

In my first BC-12 I had the 'Y' type shoulder harness and, yes, they do rub your neck. I put those automotive shoulder harness pads around them to help. It helped a little, but I ended up stowing the harnesses as they really limit your movement even more and they still rub your neck.

My '43 L-2 had the military type lap belt with the handle that captured the belt's metal loop in the hook. I also have a three point just like this in my AC Cobra. I like the latching mechanism but not the 'Y' harness.

[lfries]

Re: 4 point, 5 point belt recomendations

My 150 has a y type that comes down from overhead and behind. I find them comfortable. I give myself several inches of forward movement. I plan to install similiar harnesses it the Taylorcraft as soon as I ssell my Luscombe.

[VASWIFT]

Re: 4 point, 5 point belt recomendations

Wag-Aero Y-Type installed in NC26636 last week. Photos on Facebook Taylorcraft Group page (https://www.facebook.com/groups/571231992887131/). If you get the "Y" back against the cross tube the neck rubbing is minimal, especially if you keep the shoulder strap loose.

No need for a five-point with groin strap if not doing negative G's.

[Ryan]

Re: 4 point, 5 point belt recomendations

We have the wag y type as well. Only issue I have had is it is a real PITA to wear a hoodie in the winter! Other than that not bad. I keep them loose enough to get a good fist underneath of them. They are mounted to the cross tube above the seat sling back.

[RobertP]

Re: 4 point, 5 point belt recomendations

I have the four point belts fitted in my F22A. I find you have to a bit of a contornsionist ( sorry about the spelling! ) to get all the bits latched up especially the shoulder straps when you also have a passenger in situ as the belts disappear behind the seats at any given opportunity! you also need to have to have the belts marked with two of you in the aircraft or else chaos reigns! However once latched up especially has been said with a fist of spare space everything feels very secure and worth the effort!

[Bigdog]

Re: 4 point, 5 point belt recomendations

No need for a five-point with groin strap if not doing negative G's.

The crotch strap is actually an anti-submarining belt from a safety standpoint. But with the very upright seat position and low lap belt attach in the Tcraft submarining is not likely so the 5th point is of lessor value.

Greg

[Larry Lyons]

Re: 4 point, 5 point belt recommendations

Give Jack Hooker a call, he has built several for Taylorcrafts and can give you some ideas on what will work well and what won't. I like his stuff, well built and he can custom fit it to your craft. And I am not saying that just because I share a hanger with him. Look at most of the air show folks and you will see one of his units.

http://www.hookerharness.com or 815-233-5478 and talk to Scott or Jack.

L

[Robert Lees]

Re: 4 point, 5 point belt recommendations

Jack Hooker made my 4-point harness for my '46 model; I did get him to make a 5th point harness at the same time. The 5th point requires a slot in the canvas sling (a "crotch slot"), so as to wrap around the tube under your knees (and I have that slot in my canvas sling).

It also requires a cut-out in the seat cushion (which I don't have) so I've never installed the anti-submarine 5th point.

My shoulder harnesses are Y-shaped and go back to the top longeron cluster back where the aft end of the extended baggage compartment would be. No neck chafing. Jack Hooker has the details.



Below is the port side, modified from the TOC drawing due to interference on the upper diagonal tube:



I have many more photos of the installation for those that might be interested in the same...all from a Bruce Bixler TOC newsletter ages ago (bless 'im).

That all aside, I'm very impressed with the Hooker Harness.

[N95334]

Re: 4 point, 5 point belt recommendations

I put Hooker Harness (4) point with the Y shoulder harness. They give you plenty in belt to attach to the rear tube that runs across the rear spars so you can move the Y up further towards the tube so you don't get the neck rubbing. I don't see any need for the five point system. I have done all sort of mild aerobatics in my Taylorcraft and never needed the 5th belt. My interior is grey but bought red belts because it stands out better and my airplane is red and cream on the outside.

[astjp2]

Re: 4 point, 5 point belt recommendations

If you do not drill or weld on the airframe, it is a minor and only needs a logbook entry, if you start welding tabs or drilling holes you will need to do a full structural workup for the stresses and the corresponding STC. Tim

[M Towsley]

Re: 4 point, 5 point belt recommendations

Just for conversation purposes, obviously, a shoulder harness is better than no harness. I found mine extremely restrictive. I see a couple of you speak of a fist's worth of slack. I know many think they will be able to reach up and take up the tension in case of emergency, unless that emergency is a couple hundred feet off the ground after takeoff. I would think it is really going to hurt when you finally come to a stop against that slack. Remember, this is just for conversation purposes, a should harness is better than no harness, but that slack can cause your upper body to still move forward and side-to-side.

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: 4 point, 5 point belt recommendations

Of course if you have arms like a Baboon you don't need slack. Can't you guys tie your shoes without bending forward?

Hank

Got to go put some cream on my knuckles. ;-)

[M Towsley]

Re: 4 point, 5 point belt recommendations

Yea, if I drag my feet up to the chair!

[jim cooper]

Re: 4 point, 5 point belt recommendations

Yea, if I drag my feet up to the chair!

To quote richard Nixon "let me say this about that" I've always flown with standard seat belt except.....the Stearman. It had when I bought it the old standard shoulder harness, with crotch belt. It was hard getting used to BUT after using it for say 10 hours I found it to be really nice and it had a lever type quick disconnect right at the waist. A former Navy pilot who checked me out in it said to use the crotch belt as it would prevent me from winding up under the panel eating a rudder pedal if it went in. The throttle was at my left hand so I didn't have to reach for it. The only thing I ever did was a loop on occasion but the harness made me feel secure. Better than possibly eating the panel without one. To be sure, I am no expert but always wanted a good harness in my T Craft! Best Jim.