Times change!

[jim cooper]

I put my T-Craft in Trade A Plane for two months. Got maybe 12 calls. (I dropped the price from 26000 to 21500.) One guy said on his 2nd call " I counted all my money and I have 19,600!" My reply was "Too bad...you don't have enough to buy it. You'll have to buy one thats not as nice.". (I figured with winter coming on, hangar rent, insurance etc. I'd get rid of it and hunt for an 85 with a starter in nice shape.) A few years back, it would have been GONE at 24,000. Quick! JC

[M Towsley]

Re: Times change!

I had to come down about 20% on a plane, (not a T-Craft), I recently sold. Sign of the current times plus a niche market, the Taylorcraft is an older fabric covered taildragger airplane, etc. I had lots of 'serious' phone call tire kickers, though.

[skyboltone]

Re: Times change!

Don't dispair. There are serious tire kickers. Like me. I do call, I state up front what my intentions are. If you don't like people join a monastery.

Sometimes you eat the bear, and sometimes the bear eats you. I have a $240,000 boat for sale. My broker says to feel lucky if I get an offer for $110,000. I intend to spread the pain around. It's tough out there. The house I bought in August came to me at $106K on a short sale. The existing note was $240K. I feel very bad for the former owner, but then again, I'll get hurt on the damn boat. It's all relative. As long as you don't have a mortgage or note on your airplane.

[Robert Lees]

Re: Times change!

Will you take $50,000?

To all: Why just not keep the boat/plane/house (as appropriate) for ten years? Is mooring/hangarage/etc that much that you will lose in the long term? And what do you do if you do sell? Put the $$$ in a bank account?

Just asking.

[crispy critter]

Re: Times change!

I've bought and sold a bunch of airplanes and other stuff and I have found that 90% of the buyers were not seriously looking and admitted they were tire kickers not really looking to buy. I welcome tire kickers and always have because those are the guys that are mostly just looking for a reason to get out and meet other airplane folks and maybe even get to fly something they normally wouldn't. Plus it introduces new people and new friendships. True there is the occasional pain in the butt who wants to jerk ya around and try to tell you every single defect they can find just in an effort to get you to pay them to take your airplane,lol...but you would be suprised how many folks buy the airplane because they like the guy selling it more then they like the airplane. Tire kickers make up the biggest majority of the buyers market. Welcome the tire kickers and if someone make ya a lowball offer,rather then telling then getting a little testy with them and telling them to go buy something else,try telling them it's a little lower then you can take but if they want to come take a look at it just in case it's still available when they come up with a little extra cash then at least they will usually feel better about it.....and you will also be suprised how many folks can come up with another grand or two in a hurry when they see something they really like being sold by someone who really makes them feel welcome. Times are tight right now for everyone and it's now easy getting what we feel should be a fair price for something right now. I hate to say it but a $20,000 taylorcraft 4-5 years ago is lucky to bring $15,000 in todays market in the exact same condition. A fair price for an average Cessna 170A 4-5 years ago was a whole sale bargin steal at $35,000 but now that same airplane is $25,000 to $30,000....and that's talking mid time engine,less then 5000TT,and fair paint & interior. We all have to adjust a little bit and take the hit if ya want to sell bad enough or simply just keep and enjoy it.

[M Towsley]

Re: Times change!

Kevin,

You definitely nailed it, I think the attitude of the seller and how the person percieves the seller means a lot. The guy I bought my plane from did come down a bit, not as much as I would have liked. But, he was obviously knowledgeable and just a heck of a nice guy. He also helped a lot with some liens from back in the sixties that no one knew about until I did a lien check. The guy could not have been nicer and more helpful. I still stay in touch with him now and then.

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: Times change!

Tire kickers rarely buy, but they DO TALK. A friend of mine is a real estate agent and says he has NEVER sold a house on an "open house", but he has sold lots of OTHER houses to people at open houses (same person, different house) and he has sold lots of "open" houses to friends of those who saw the house while it was open. Did any of that make sense?
Moral is, treat em nice. It's good business and lots of fun (most of the time) to meet new airplane folks.
Hank

[lfries]

Re: Times change!

I have apologized for not being willing to come down to what is being offered. Most of the time I have then gotten my last agreed price.

[jim cooper]

Re: Times change!

I am always pleasant.... I answer any and all questions in a direct way, never hedging and try to be very honest. The key. I have found is like selling anything. That is...how far away are they? and are they coming to see it. None of these people came to see the airplane and admitted they probably would not. This means (to me) that they are NOT serious and so I say thanks for calling, etc. Aircraft I have sold in the past, last one 5 years ago, the eventual buyer, after my telling him the airplanes history and current cond. immed. asked how to get to it, arrived in a short time.... looked it over,and bought it. Cash. I have always been on good terms with MOST of the people I have dealt with. Especially with the last two builders of the T-Crafts I have purchased. They were both up front and very honest. Others, over the years, not so good as they lied to me. Serious stuff. Same with automobiles I have purchased. I never expect a longterm friendship as I realize truth in car sales is hard to come by. In the case of my current T-Craft, the BUILDER is available to speak with and I always mention this. As I stated earlier, I think its the times. I flew it yesterday and it is a nice airplane but...I want a starter and at least 85 hp. but....I don't HAVE to sell this one and that is the key. JC

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: Times change!

No one is REQUIRED to sell for what the market will pay. If they won't pay what you want, they don't want it as much as you do. That's how the market works. I have been made MANY offers for my 45 (the one in pieces) and have refused them all. I have been told it isn't worth as much as they are offering. Maybe not,....... TO THEM! That's why I still have it and they don't.
Why would you EVER apologize for placing a value you believe to be fair on your own property? Offer it for sale for what YOU want to sell it for. No one has any more right to say you want too much for it than you have right to complain no one will pay you what you ask. When someone wants it more than you, they will own it. End of story. Happy ending for all.
Hank

Don't bother making offers for my 45. There isn't enough money in the world. It isn't rational. It's MINE, and I won't let her go. For ANY price. Someday she will be DONATED, but NEVER sold.

[jim cooper]

Re: Times change!

If the last theory was true then very few would buy anything! I think alot of people want to buy alot of things but as the saying goes...Money talks and bullshit walks. They simply don't have the money now. In fact too many don't even have a job or a roof. If one looks at trade a plane as an example, prices on most catagorys are way down. Its a buyers market but few buyers, especially for this type aircraft. In the condition my airplane is in, its an excellent buy for someone who knows what they are looking at. A fellow who is an AI who rebuilt a Maule and keeps it in the next hangar said he could not possibly redo one like it for 30,000. As the economy improves, it will sell. JC

[guns68]

Re: Times change!

I just came back from the airport looking at a champ that a buddy bought on Friday. It's a 90hp and he paid 21K, two and a half years ago when I was looking to buy a plane it seemed that they were going for over 30. She's a straight, clean bird. One good thing about the prices dropping, if they keep going down I may have to buy another one (T'craft that is).

[Ron Coleman]

Re: Times change!

Hey Hank!!
How much did you say you would take for the '40?

RonC?

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: Times change!

I have a 45 and a 41, but neither is for sale. I am helping on a 40 but we have only recently moved half of it and going to pick up the other half this week. It will be years before it is ready for flight. I am hoping to start a thread on the restoration so we can document bringing her back. As usual, I want to make it just like the day she rolled out of the factory but i doubt the owner is totally convinced that is the way to go.
Hank

[Pearson]

Re: Times change!

I have never sold an airplane, and have only bought two. But I used to buy and sell a lot of cars and I learned a thing or two about the negotiating process. I agree that most people are just tire kickers and dreamers. A few questions can help you tell them from the serious buyers. I learned to ask people how they were planning to pay for the car they were calling about. Were they going to have to sell another car first or did they have cash in the bank. Another good question is to ask how many they have already looked at, also have they ever owned a car (airplane) like this before. By asking a few technical questions, you can verify whether they know anything about that specific model, which lets you know if they are serious.

If they don't have cash in hand, have never owned a similar car or airplane, and haven't looked at any others, they are probably just a dreamer. If they make a counter offer and tell me it is all they have, I offer to hold the vehicle for a specified time for a non refundable price. I also learned that if they start pointing out every minor blemish, they are out to boost their ego. Many tire kickers start out seeking to get a steal on buying something below it's value. But after they see that you are not going to lower your price to what they consider is a good deal, it becomes a contest to them to see how low they can get you to go before they tell you they have to go to the bank, after which you will never see them again. They walk away with their ego boosted because they feel like they won by getting you to lower your price.

By qualifying them on the first call by asking about how they are going to pay for the item being sold, you can spot the dreamers right away. If they are not willing to tell you enough about their finances to let you know they have the financial ability to pay for it, they are just wasting your time.