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D-window BC12-D

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  • #16
    Re: D-window BC12-D

    Bob,

    The material used was 2024-0. The key is the dash zero, it is dead soft. Working it was like smearing room temperature butter. There is no doubler used to hold the shape. The shape is held by the two lips, one bent over toward the center of the window, the other to the outside. In the fifth picture in the previous post you can see the inner lip has been bent over toward the center of the frame. In the next picture you can see the outter lip is a little wider and bent to the outside. The wider lip will be seen inside the aircraft.

    I made two slightly different sized frames for EACH window. The one shown in the picture, marked "small", is actually the retainer part. The larger frame is only about 3/16" larger than the one in the picture. The smaller frame will slide just inside the larger one and push the glass outward against the inner lip.

    The larger frame will be attached to tabs welded to the diagonal tube of the fuselage. A cutout will be made at the two locations where the tube passes through the frame. The fabric will wrap over the small lip and be glued to the wide area of the frame. Then the glass goes in from the inside. After the interior fabric is glued on to form the sides of the baggage area, the smaller frame is inserted from the inside into the larger opening pushing the glass outward against the small lip of the larger frame. I plan to seal it with a tube of butyl caulk like what is used to install windshields in cars.

    I still have the bucks, but you can make your own if you have a good jigsaw. The hardest part was getting a small hole started for the saw blade. I followed Hank's advise, and used Medium Density Hardboard from Home Depot. I think the MDH was about $45, and the aluminum was about $75 from the Metal Supermarket. If you need more detailed pictures or more info, let me know. The only minor problem I had was some of the screws holding the aluminum in the MDH kept working loose from the hammering. You don't have to hammer hard at all, but the side load on the screws moved them sideways in their holes. After you take the part out of the buck, you have to work it a little more with a hammer and dolly.
    Richard Pearson
    N43381
    Fort Worth, Texas

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: D-window BC12-D

      OK, there is actually 4 (one is a black sheep version) that I know of.

      1) The pre-war wood frame one originally used was a laminated wrapped frame I had never seen when I built my frame. I finally found some pictures of one (after a LOT of really nice wood work to make version 2). The original ones look like they were made by wrapping very thin lamination's of wood around a male form until they were about 1/2" wide. I don't know what kind of wood they were since mine had rotted to a pile of potato chips and I thought the remains were from a past owner cutting a frame from a piece of cheap plywood. My "D" window was being held in by screws through the fabric. The wood chips were all under the seat sling!

      2) The Pre-war one I made was from nice clear grain Poplar and I have drawings. They look beautiful and are slightly heavier and stronger than original. WAY stronger than the loads they will see, which I did so the mounting screws would be easy to work with. They are under all the ugly rib tape in the photos I posted. I took photos of them before I had to bury them in the fabric, but the photos were lost. Made me want to cry. Some of the best wood work I have ever done. I wanted to hang them on my library wall. These are REALLY owner produced (you CAN design a new part if it is better than the original. That's my story and I am sticking to it. Sure a heck of a lot better than screws in fabric!)

      3) The third type replaced the wrapped wood ones and were stamped and bent up from sheet aluminum. That's the other ones I have tracings for. I know they were used on the early post war planes but don't know when they replaced the wood ones.

      4) The fourth ones are the ones Richard made a tool for. They are the really big windows that replaced the little "D" windows.

      Name your poison! ALL of them significantly improve visibility.

      As an aside, I slid my wood ones under the fabric and attached them on a finished plane. It was a LOT of work, but came out pretty good. All the work I did to avoid a recover was NOT WORTH IT! I should have just recovered.

      Hank

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      • #18
        Re: D-window BC12-D

        I think that I'll try making some like Richard did. Maybe even change the shape somewhat.
        Hal

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: D-window BC12-D

          Speaking of windows, how tough is it too put a nice skylight in a T Craft BC12D that does not have one? Probably alot of money, right? JC

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: D-window BC12-D

            Not really that expensive, if you are doing a recover. Not unaffordable even if you aren't, as long as you are willing to do a lot of the grunt work yourself and have some pretty basic wood working tools.
            Hank

            Of course there the "legalities" to consider.

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: D-window BC12-D

              I am taking photos of 422JE , a BC12D . she has the "factory" version ; done at the factory in 1992 ; well done , nice metal work and approved on 337 . Soon..
              Taylorcraft Foundation, Inc
              Forrest A Barber 330-495-5447
              TF#1
              www.BarberAircraft.com
              [email protected]

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: D-window BC12-D

                Now my plane is covered,the d window show up,shoot,pic look good
                on d-window,Rick

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: D-window BC12-D

                  I have some NOS prewar std metal frames here. Original Deluxe frames were made from spruce strips that i can tell, then spiral wrapped with 1" cotton tape. Never have seen the early post war d windows, just the f-19 style.

                  Oh, almost forgot, there is a 5th window that was used in the f-21

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: D-window BC12-D

                    Richard,
                    I am ready to start making my windows and I am going to use the method that you did. What thickness of 2024-0 did you use? I wish I could find somewhere that sold strips. I hate to buy a whole sheet for this.
                    Thanks,
                    Hal

                    Originally posted by Pearson View Post
                    Bob,

                    The material used was 2024-0. The key is the dash zero, it is dead soft. Working it was like smearing room temperature butter. There is no doubler used to hold the shape. The shape is held by the two lips, one bent over toward the center of the window, the other to the outside. In the fifth picture in the previous post you can see the inner lip has been bent over toward the center of the frame. In the next picture you can see the outter lip is a little wider and bent to the outside. The wider lip will be seen inside the aircraft.

                    I made two slightly different sized frames for EACH window. The one shown in the picture, marked "small", is actually the retainer part. The larger frame is only about 3/16" larger than the one in the picture. The smaller frame will slide just inside the larger one and push the glass outward against the inner lip.

                    The larger frame will be attached to tabs welded to the diagonal tube of the fuselage. A cutout will be made at the two locations where the tube passes through the frame. The fabric will wrap over the small lip and be glued to the wide area of the frame. Then the glass goes in from the inside. After the interior fabric is glued on to form the sides of the baggage area, the smaller frame is inserted from the inside into the larger opening pushing the glass outward against the small lip of the larger frame. I plan to seal it with a tube of butyl caulk like what is used to install windshields in cars.

                    I still have the bucks, but you can make your own if you have a good jigsaw. The hardest part was getting a small hole started for the saw blade. I followed Hank's advise, and used Medium Density Hardboard from Home Depot. I think the MDH was about $45, and the aluminum was about $75 from the Metal Supermarket. If you need more detailed pictures or more info, let me know. The only minor problem I had was some of the screws holding the aluminum in the MDH kept working loose from the hammering. You don't have to hammer hard at all, but the side load on the screws moved them sideways in their holes. After you take the part out of the buck, you have to work it a little more with a hammer and dolly.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: D-window BC12-D

                      For all of those interested in drawings of the "D" windows I now have the post war small "D" frame drawing and my wood pre war frame drawing. I am supposed to have an original pre war wood frame on the way to make another drawing.
                      If you want a copy of either the small post war metal frame or my wood frame please send me your name and mailing address at hjarrett2 at cox dot net (if you can't figure that out you really shouldn't be making airplane parts!).
                      We are in the process of being snowed in here but I will be getting envelopes and posting to the people who respond as soon as we dig out. I will make drawings of the original wood frames as soon as I get the original to copy.
                      If you want the later, larger post war frames it looks like Richard Pearson has the tooling and data to make those. They look beautiful for those who want the BIG windows.
                      Cost for the drawings should be less than $10 including postage.
                      Hank

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